Mercedes AMG F1 W07

[ClarkBT11]

Don't think this has been mentioned, do we know what level of feul was on board at the time. More Weight would change the charistic of the car.

[godlameroso]

Degner 1 has a blind entry, is slightly off camber and has a small dip right after the apex. It's a very fast corner with entry being nearly 260kph in qualifying. It's an extreme example of a corner that has high tire loading because you have to ride the inside curb on the apex. If you notice after the apex you can see marks on the ground from cars bottoming out on corner exit. Remember the rear wing is still providing downforce as it's air stream is unhindered. Even when the Mercedes goes slowly it still exhibits massive amounts of roll, when Hamilton was pulling over from his blown engine, you could see it.

My point is, is it really that much of a stretch to think aero has advanced to the point where teams aren't trying to limit effects of roll but actually trying to take advantage of it? The side closer to the ground isn't sealing anything , but having the diffuser and wing closer to the ground does improve it's performance to a point.

[zac510]

They seem to have a very non-linear system, eg have decoupled various aspects of the suspension and can control to a high level.

[bhall II]

My point is, is it really that much of a stretch to think aero has advanced to the point where teams aren't trying to limit effects of roll but actually trying to take advantage of it? The side closer to the ground isn't sealing anything , but having the diffuser and wing closer to the ground does improve it's performance to a point.

For any diffuser angle/ride height combination, there's a sweet spot, and deviation from that sweet spot in either direction reduces downforce coefficient. It's the reason why teams have spent untold millions developing active suspensions, reactive ride height, FRIC, and tuned mass dampers (to a certain extent).


via Willem Toet

Such stability is so important that the first generation of exhaust-blown diffusers was voluntarily abandoned for performance reasons, because their throttle-dependent nature made downforce inconsistent.

[CBeck113]

The roll characteristics of the W07 make me wonder if they actually found a way to cope with the form change of the diffusor in corners. Since we know that a) the entire floor is used as a diffusor, and b) the most important factor for a diffusor to work is the volume flow of air (Vdot from here on out, the dot is normally above the V), what speaks against Mercedes adapting a design which is very consistant, to the point where the form change can be compensated by redirecting the vortices to maintain the Vdot, and so maintianing a constant level of grip? They would have to make sure that the drop on the outer side of the car in the corner doesn't cause the vortices to tear off. Or could they be used to support the vortices being generated towards the center of the car and at the barge boards, and once they are gone, allow the other vortices to shift into this area of turbulent air? I imagine that this can happen on both the low (outside of corner) and high sides. As long as the Vdot for the diffusor geometry is fulfilled, it will dictate the pressure rise and create downforce.
I'm just thinking out loud, so please don't expect me to produce a calculation validating my theory - if I had the capacity to do so, I'd Dr. Beck by now

[A-Bap]

The roll characteristics of the W07 make me wonder if they actually found a way to cope with the form change of the diffusor in corners. Since we know that a) the entire floor is used as a diffusor, and b) the most important factor for a diffusor to work is the volume flow of air (Vdot from here on out, the dot is normally above the V), what speaks against Mercedes adapting a design which is very consistant, to the point where the form change can be compensated by redirecting the vortices to maintain the Vdot, and so maintianing a constant level of grip? They would have to make sure that the drop on the outer side of the car in the corner doesn't cause the vortices to tear off. Or could they be used to support the vortices being generated towards the center of the car and at the barge boards, and once they are gone, allow the other vortices to shift into this area of turbulent air? I imagine that this can happen on both the low (outside of corner) and high sides. As long as the Vdot for the diffusor geometry is fulfilled, it will dictate the pressure rise and create downforce.
I'm just thinking out loud, so please don't expect me to produce a calculation validating my theory - if I had the capacity to do so, I'd Dr. Beck by now

I think the answer is really quite simple. It starts with the understanding that certain corners are best optimized with aerodynamic downforce. For others, it doesn't matter. Braking, weight transfer and traction are vital. There's yet a third type where various blends of these factors are desirable from entry through apex and exit.

This leads to my hypothesis about the Mercedes advantage:

Its their sim, CFD capabilities, computer power and software. I will wager that it is properly light years head of everyone else.

This helps them not only understand their car like no other team, it also helps them achieve unprecedented levels of harmony between tires, aero, engine and mechanical. This in turn provides them with the ability to "work ahead," in ways that other teams can't--the ability to dial in their setup to suit the shapes, forces and topographies of each track--to mind bending levels that would surprise even the most imaginative among us.

[Just_a_fan]

Mercedes' Andy Shovlin said (in Autosport) that the image shows the car responding to a compression at the apex. It lasts about 0.05s and results in the outer rear tyre experiencing a load of about 1 tonne. [At 250kmh, that time period is about 3.5m of track so not much at all.] The car was experiencing about 3.5g lateral and was momentarily subjected to a 2g vertical component caused by the compression. The driver would just experience the briefest of "bangs", nothing more. The inside front wheel is nearly off the track because of the way they run the suspension but all of the cars would be broadly similar, apparently.

A lot of over-analysis going on in here by some people. The image is just an F1 car doing what it does week in, week out. It's just been captured on film for once. Perhaps everyone has forgotten what F1 cars can really do - too busy moaning about the noise and the tyres, blah, blah.

[Morteza]

[timbo]

I wonder if softer roll can somehow be a byproduct of having a better pitch behavior? Can it be that suspension setup for good pitch stability under braking and acceleration would result in soft roll?

[diego.liv]

http://it.motorsport.com/f1/news/la-mer ... 17-845493/

Essentially,
Ferrari wrote a letter for a clarification regarding the use of magnets and someone claims RB/Williams did try them, probably to warm tyres more quickly
Reports also that Merc is experimenting 4 wheel steering for 2017 (not unusual among hyper car makers outside f1, the same Manitou uses it albeit a simple version) and that Rosberg had something new to try during FP3, for 2017 too

[michl420]

4 Wheel steering is forbidden since maybe 30 years

[JesperA]

4 Wheel steering is forbidden since maybe 30 years

True 4 wheel steering yes, but what if a wishbone, bushes or linkage flexes in a way that push the angle of the wheels in the desired angle? A kind of hidden passive 4 wheel steering that would be really hard for the FIA to find on a static test. Even a dirty SAAB have passive 4 wheel steering http://www.saabplanet.com/saab-reaxs-un ... -steering/ and F1 developers should be able to implement an even smarter system, if they don't already have. Note that the rear wheel steering operates at minuscule angles compared to a the real steering of the front wheel so as i said, it could be hard to uncover on a static test.

[PhillipM]

That's something they've all been doing for the past 30 years anyway.
Even roadcars have used it for decades.

[diego.liv]

Yes, thank you, i talked about the Manitou, but nevermind...They could be experimenting a passive system for 2017 that brings a good advantage. It could be the same as the FRIC and what came next

[PhillipM]

They already have a passive system, every team does, even Manor.