2021 Dutch Grand Prix - Zandvoort Sept 3 - 5

[PlatinumZealot]

I suggest you qualify your opinion with "I think/beleive/suppose/assume/reckon/deducethe Mercedes is the best on the grid" instead of stating it as an indisputable fact.

When you state a fact, be preapred to back it up.

This was guidline on the forum not too long ago.

Do you agree Hamilton had a dominant car for 5 seasons? 2014,2015,2016,2019 and 2020?

So check the available data and analysis and that will be my answer. I go with that. I don't care for emotions.

[101FlyingDutchman]

I suggest you qualify your opinion with "I think/beleive/suppose/assume/reckon/deducethe Mercedes is the best on the grid" instead of stating it as an indisputable fact.

When you state a fact, be preapred to back it up.

This was guidline on the forum not too long ago.

Do you agree Hamilton had a dominant car for 5 seasons? 2014,2015,2016,2019 and 2020?

You probably won’t get an answer.

[Pany]

Nope. Mercedes was racing alone for 7 years.the two years in whicj ferrari was leading ended pretty quick, immediately after summer engine and car upgrades from mercedes. Titles were easily in their hands, as they were just playing mindgames. Dont forget the tokens method, wich impeded other teams to recover engine side.

I purposely left out the Hamilton era. Because it wasnt really an era.

2014, no dominance. Won in the last race.

2015 was dominant.

2016 Nico won.

2017 Ferrari was leading up to Singapore.
2018 Ferrari was leading up to mid season.

2019 and 2020.. Dominance.

So overall it's only three separate years of dominance.

[RonMexico]

I suggest you qualify your opinion with "I think/beleive/suppose/assume/reckon/deducethe Mercedes is the best on the grid" instead of stating it as an indisputable fact.

When you state a fact, be preapred to back it up.

This was guidline on the forum not too long ago.

Do you agree Hamilton had a dominant car for 5 seasons? 2014,2015,2016,2019 and 2020?

So check the available data and analysis and that will be my answer. I go with that. I don't care for emotions.

We are in agreement so

[codetower]

I think if it outright benefits the team, then Bottas shouldn't be too upset. But if it's simply to benefit Hamilton, say to swap positions to help in the WDC or something along those lines, then I would be upset if I were Bottas. The more points, higher podiums, etc., the better it is for his sponsorships, and his overall value. I'm sure there are performance bonuses tied to his results.

[SiLo]

Bottas is way too professional to not help Lewis win the WDC if he is also in a position to collect podiums and help the team win the WCC.

[El Scorchio]

Bottas is way too professional to not help Lewis win the WDC if he is also in a position to collect podiums and help the team win the WCC.

Well.... he wasn't on Sunday! (at least on the face of it) Despite being told not to go for fastest lap, and then being told to abort halfway through, he still did it and forced the team to pit Hamilton again and make him do it.

If it was manufactured drama/a plan, I really can't think to what end or benefit it was meant to be or indeed how they would have communicated it to the drivers. Unless they thought for some bizarre reason Red Bull would be stupid enough to assume Hamilton was pitting anyway before he did and pre-emptively bring Verstappen in for some weird reason, then to leave Hamilton out. I can't imagine a team run by a group of 10 year olds falling for that.

[nzjrs]

Well.... he wasn't on Sunday! (at least on the face of it) Despite being told not to go for fastest lap, and then being told to abort halfway through, he still did it and forced the team to pit Hamilton again and make him do it.

I think they pitted Bottas precisely so they could pit Hamilton the very next lap - thus guaranteeing Hamilton a shot at the fastest lap. That is, Bottas going for the fastest lap was purely symbolic but the plan was always engineered to give Hamilton the last shot at it - and a shot on the last lap so Verstappen could not counter.

[El Scorchio]

Well.... he wasn't on Sunday! (at least on the face of it) Despite being told not to go for fastest lap, and then being told to abort halfway through, he still did it and forced the team to pit Hamilton again and make him do it.

I think they pitted Bottas precisely so they could pit Hamilton the very next lap - thus guaranteeing Hamilton a shot at the fastest lap. That is, Bottas going for the fastest lap was purely symbolic but the plan was always engineered to give Hamilton the last shot at it - and a shot on the last lap so Verstappen could not counter.

Possibly. Although the status quo was just fine until they brought Bottas in, and Verstappen wouldn't have been able to go for the lap anyway without that. I'm not sure anyone else in the top 10 was in position to go for fastest lap without losing a position or two and costing themselves points? From Bottas to 11th everyone was on the same 70 second lap so surely that would have been the case. Therefore was there actually any need to even bring Bottas in at all in the first place? Either way, Bottas on the face of it defied a team order twice and took a point away from Hamilton.

[Just_a_fan]

Either way, Bottas on the face of it defied a team order twice and took a point away from Hamilton.

He didn't take the point away. Hamilton got the fastest lap point.

[El Scorchio]

Either way, Bottas on the face of it defied a team order twice and took a point away from Hamilton.

He didn't take the point away. Hamilton got the fastest lap point.

He did momentarily after being asked not to. (Reading back I didn't make that clear enough probably) Which meant they had no choice but to then pit Hamilton to get it back. It doesn't appear it was actually necessary to pit either of them, unless they thought Verstappen was capable of banging one in on his old tyres.

[pb6797]

Either way, Bottas on the face of it defied a team order twice and took a point away from Hamilton.

He didn't take the point away. Hamilton got the fastest lap point.

He did momentarily after being asked not to. (Reading back I didn't make that clear enough probably) Which meant they had no choice but to then pit Hamilton to get it back. It doesn't appear it was actually necessary to pit either of them, unless they thought Verstappen was capable of banging one in on his old tyres.

Red Bull could have pitted Perez and had him do fastest lap. He'd have lost points but they have done it before - their primary goal being to deny Hamilton the point.

[SmallSoldier]

Bottas is out for himself now. I don't think he'll do the team any real favours, or at least the bare minimum as demonstrated on Sunday with the fastest lap thing. (and to be frank why should he- they've let him go) He knows they can't drop him before the end of the season unless he does something ridiculous as whoever replaces him won't be able to be a factor in the title races. They still prize the WCC over WDC first and foremost.

It will be very interesting if there's a request for team orders at any point. I don't think he'll acquiesce very easily. He already has a drive wrapped up for next season so his future is not an issue. It'll be just like Raikkonen's immediate change in attitude/compliance as soon as he knew he was leaving Ferrari with regard to playing the team orders game with Vettel.

I pretty much doubt that… Not only has Mercedes “helped him” secure a seat before making an announcement… You don’t burn bridges in F1, as well as soil your reputation… Bottas playing the team game won’t hurt him and arguably help his stock.

[Tvetovnato]

Well, considering he is paid millions to be of service for the team, it would be quite childish and extremely unprofessional not to do your utmost to help the team. Bottas doesn’t strike me as that kind of person.

[codetower]

Bottas is way too professional to not help Lewis win the WDC if he is also in a position to collect podiums and help the team win the WCC.

Well.... he wasn't on Sunday! (at least on the face of it) Despite being told not to go for fastest lap, and then being told to abort halfway through, he still did it and forced the team to pit Hamilton again and make him do it.

If it was manufactured drama/a plan, I really can't think to what end or benefit it was meant to be or indeed how they would have communicated it to the drivers. Unless they thought for some bizarre reason Red Bull would be stupid enough to assume Hamilton was pitting anyway before he did and pre-emptively bring Verstappen in for some weird reason, then to leave Hamilton out. I can't imagine a team run by a group of 10 year olds falling for that.

I'm not so sure... they pitted him (and he wasn't sure why till after he asked), they put him on softs so his instinct may have been to just go for fastest lap. He did let up on sector 3 once he was told to abort. His sector 3 on that lap was about .7 seconds slower that his previous lap's sector 3. Now, if he was told beforehand not to attempt fastest lap, then I agree, he wasn't being too professional.

But this goes to what I was saying. That one point wasn't hurting Mercedes' WCC at all, nor was it going to affect Hamiltons podium results for that race. But as a driver, it might affect YOUR 3rd place in the standings moving forward. I don't blame Bottas for going for the fastest lap point.