Scuderia Ferrari 2012

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Dragonfly
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari 2012

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raymondu999 wrote: So say your CFD and windtunnel isn't correlating. Sure, you're updating a bit blind - but obviously parts are still getting manufactured and put on the car, without the benefit of CFD/windtunnel validation. But back before CFD and/or windtunnels were used in F1 - people still updated their cars, and while some upgrades didn't work, some did. Why is it that in Ferrari's case, most aren't? Obviously this is indicative of them actually NOT DESIGNING GOOD PARTS, rather than indicative of the windtunnel. Had they had a better, working CFD and windtunnel kit, then the difference would just be that CFD and the windtunnel (and not the track) tells the engineers that the part was bad.

I hope I'm making my question clear. CFD and windtunnel are not essential in making an actual working upgrade - they help, they expedite the process, but they won't make the car quicker.
The keyword is "testing". Back then they simply bolt on the new parts on the car and test on their own track. If the results were not satisfactory the part didn't appear on a race weekend.
As someone already mentioned, they underestimated the trend and didn't put much resources in CFD and simulation.
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shelly
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari 2012

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There are a lot of things that can be wrong in simulating a car in wt and/or cfd.
I know about a lot of issues that have to be tuned, or can't be tuned but are corrected with fudge factors. Some of those have been mentioned already.
One thing that has not been cited yet is how difficult it is to simulate the correct shape of the moving tyre and its contact patch: it has a strong influence on aero (underfloor aero and vortices). You need to know the correct sahpe of teh wheel and then duplicate it in cfd or with a smaller wheel
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turbof1
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Re: Ferrari F2012

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There are fears with customs at India. They couldn't choose a worse time to deploy that upgrade: if the updates get stuck there, it'll mean they might have to produce entire new parts for the race after. Customs at india are known to be very "bureaucratic": procedures, protocols, paperwork,... in other words could take up to a month if you have bad luck.
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Sjamaan
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Re: Ferrari F2012

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As always, come Indian GP time the car will be very much the same, with no big updates, and of course no new exhausts from 2013 car, that's ridiculous.

Every week before a GP weekend the same rumors about big packages, then nothing, then the same excuses> windtunnel problems blablabla... Yeah, sure. I expect maybe new small iteration of nose/front wing and nothing else.

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elFranZ
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Re: Ferrari F2012

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Sjamaan wrote:As always, come Indian GP time the car will be very much the same, with no big updates, and of course no new exhausts from 2013 car, that's ridiculous.

Every week before a GP weekend the same rumors about big packages, then nothing, then the same excuses> windtunnel problems blablabla... Yeah, sure. I expect maybe new small iteration of nose/front wing and nothing else.
It's since Singapore that something is missing. The (un)famous big update nobody has seen yet. But Fry clearly stated "there will be a consistent update for Singapore", so it has been delayed for some reason, IMO. Can't understand all this pessimistic and kinda angry posts...
Remember, season is not over, there are 100 points to catch and RB8 is strong, but not as much as last year. Let's see what's coming, then we'll better judge at the very end.

Sjamaan
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Re: Ferrari F2012

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elFranZ wrote: It's since Singapore that something is missing. The (un)famous big update nobody has seen yet. But Fry clearly stated "there will be a consistent update for Singapore", so it has been delayed for some reason, IMO. Can't understand all this pessimistic and kinda angry posts...
Remember, season is not over, there are 100 points to catch and RB8 is strong, but not as much as last year. Let's see what's coming, then we'll better judge at the very end.
He also stated big update for Singapore and we all saw what happened. You can't understand the pessimism? Maybe you should open your eyes more. There are all kinds of reasons for big pessimism. A car that's much slower than your enemy's, bad strategy (what were they thinking not letting Massa chasing Webber?), a wind tunnel that's not working and in the process of being closed...

Season may not be over officially, but it's pretty much over technically. Barring major disaster (I know this is a big if, but you know), Vettel's gonna win all races except Brasil, where as always Webber would have his consolation price for being a good 2º driver. But I certainly hope I'm wrong and you are right with your optimism.

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elFranZ
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Re: Ferrari F2012

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Sjamaan wrote: He also stated big update for Singapore and we all saw what happened. You can't understand the pessimism? Maybe you should open your eyes more. There are all kinds of reasons for big pessimism. A car that's much slower than your enemy's, bad strategy (what were they thinking not letting Massa chasing Webber?), a wind tunnel that's not working and in the process of being closed...

Season may not be over officially, but it's pretty much over technically. Barring major disaster (I know this is a big if, but you know), Vettel's gonna win all races except Brasil, where as always Webber would have his consolation price for being a good 2º driver. But I certainly hope I'm wrong and you are right with your optimism.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not that optimistic too... but I repeat, I'm pretty sure something new is arriving for India, the same things we expected to see in Singapore. And they're using the Toyota WT, so the development process is still up and running.
So, there's a little chance they're not too late to fill the gap. But we're entering the reign of speculations, I think it's better to stop here ;)

ps. [OT]letting Massa chase Webber? Come on, do you REALLY believe the Bulls had problems with Pirellis? To me, it sounded much like an invitation, "come on, we have problems, let Massa pass and catch Mark"... the only possible result was Alonso losing other 3 precious points, Webber was the fastest driver at the end of the race.[/OT]

stefan_
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari 2012

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It's official: Massa stays at Ferrari for the 2013 season.

http://www.ferrari.com/english/formula1 ... -2013.aspx
"...and there, very much in flames, is Jacques Laffite's Ligier. That's obviously a turbo blaze, and of course, Laffite will be able to see that conflagration in his mirrors... he is coolly parking the car somewhere safe." Murray Walker, San Marino 1985

donskar
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari 2012

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Nice to have Massa on board, if only for the sake of continuity and stability. But I'd rather see an announcement that Ascanelli is returning. The technical team just is not performing as well as needed to compete with Red Bull.
Enzo Ferrari was a great man. But he was not a good man. -- Phil Hill

mx_tifoso
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari 2012

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Massa ftl. Conformity is surely not the way forward. I can't say I'm surprised but I hoped Ferrari could open their eyes and break out of the mold, they need two aggressive quality drivers and for 2013 they will once again have 1.5 drivers. 1/4 of a season with decent results doesn't justify resigning Massa, imo.
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SeijaKessen
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari 2012

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mx_tifoso wrote:Massa ftl. Conformity is surely not the way forward. I can't say I'm surprised but I hoped Ferrari could open their eyes and break out of the mold, they need two aggressive quality drivers and for 2013 they will once again have 1.5 drivers. 1/4 of a season with decent results doesn't justify resigning Massa, imo.
I don't disagree. Massa was ill-suited for the 2012 campaign. Yes he picked it up the last two races, but it just feels too little, too late now.The question is, who would they field had they opted to dump Massa?

I was secretly hoping for Fisichella to replace Massa.

mx_tifoso
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari 2012

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Fisico has been out of the water for too long now, and he's probably happier doing the whole GT thing. But I'm not sure either as to who could have replaced Massa. While perhaps this is a bit cynical, Kobayashi would be a breath of fresh air!
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munudeges
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari 2012

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Well, you can thank Di Montezemelo's 45 degree wind tunnel. He thought he was saving himself money.

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siskue2005
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari 2012

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45 degree wind tunnel? What it's that?

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raymondu999
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari 2012

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Back when Willem Toet (now at Sauber) designed the Ferrari wind tunnel a long time back, Montezemelo stepped in and said the windtunnel has to be unique and beautiful, and asked him to do a unique windtunnel which no one has ever done, at the 45 degree incline.
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