Flexible wings controversy 2010

[speedsense]

I just have to disagree with the flexing evidence. I mean afterall, the splitter gets an huge inpact hitting the ground, so or it would just be shredded apart or flex like that.

EDIT: NVM the above said, you can see the whole tea tray flexing. This what it actually does at high speeds, then the tea tray comes up allowing an lower front ride height. No fia test can fix this as the bib stay is fixed at some point thus wont bend in that condition, it can only bend up it seems.

I'm pretty sure that the FIA flex tests performed on the bib are carried out in an upwards direction (happy to be proven wrong if I am), one hydraulic piston is placed under the centre front of the bib and forced upwards at a given force, then the piston is moved to the side of the bib and the same is repeated (i.e. also in a straight up movement).

If however the RB bib is moving longitudinally (i.e. rather than "bending", the whole plank or section of it is sliding toward the back of the car) when a real-world load is applied (i.e. one moving both upwards and backwards, like the road surface would when the car is running at speed), the bib stay could be as rigid as you like, providing it had a hinge at the top and bottom allowing it to move forwards and backwards as necessary, while appearing stiff when a direct upwards force was applied for the FIA test.

Yes it is tested upwards at 1000N with 5mm flex allowed. That splitter is not bending, but flexing from the mount to the chassis and moving far beyond 5mm.The splitter itself never bends and acts as though it was hinged...

[forty-two]

Yes it is tested upwards at 1000N with 5mm flex allowed. That splitter is not bending, but flexing from the mount to the chassis and moving far beyond 5mm.The splitter itself never bends and acts as though it was hinged...

I'm not quite sure I understand what you're saying there. Clearly the car is passing the test, but there does seem to be something unusual about the way it moves, based at least upon the onboard footage from a few races ago.

Can you elaborate on how you think they're passing the test but apparently still allowing their splitter to move?

[forty-two]

Thanks Mystic!

I hope you don't mind, but I've taken the liberty of trying again:




Edit, looks like that link broke already!

Who knows how long these links will continue to work though!

Forty Two,
I posted this in the Formula one cars thread for the RBR accidently. In the photo ***note the two square tubings that would proceed the location of the splitter. Imagine a smaller insert tube mounted to the splitter that inserts into the tube to mount the splitter. This tube could be made to slide in and out and flexible when out. It won't need to move much, just enough to expose the flexible portion. It could have some sort of activation device from within the cockpit. In for the static tests, out for running. Kinda goes along with your theory.
Having built a few splitter's for Atlantic cars, this mounting on the RBR and the location of the square tubing, makes me curious. I do think that it would aid a fast removable of the splitter, ie to swap it with another in a hurry but I have never seen a mounting like this... And from the video at Singapore, is the apparent flex point upon hitting the curb...very interesting....

Interesting idea, indeed the simplest way I can think of having a setup work like this would be to have some sort of articulation of the driver's seat whereby when the driver's weight is on the seat, a locking pin is withdrawn allowing the splitter to move, and then during scrutineering (when presumably the driver is not in the car?????) the pin is in place holding the splitter still.

I don't however think that this is the explanation for the square holes you see in this picture, instead I believe that these channels go all the way to the back of the car and augment the diffusor. Take a look at the following picture of the Ferrari and I think that they're doing something similar:

[mariano.torre.gomez]

I would like to understand why every time RB goes to pits, they lift up the front of the car before to move into the garages
i belive is the only team doing that
any reasonable explanation?

[forty-two]

I would like to understand why every time RB goes to pits, they lift up the front of the car before to move into the garages
i belive is the only team doing that
any reasonable explanation?

I haven't noticed this, I will now have to review some footage to see this for myself.

Do you mean that when they come into the pits during FP or Quali, they lift the car on the front jack, then let it down before letting the driver pull away and roll the car backwards into the garage, even if they're not changing tyres?

If so, I suppose they might be doing this for perfectly rational "procedural" reasons, but if they and they alone are the only team doing this, then perhaps there's something in it.

Perhaps they have a mechanism which, when the wing gets upwards force relative to the chassis (which obviously would not normally happen while running) which engages the "stiffener" for the FW and Splitter, just in case of a surprise visit from a scrutineer

[Richard]

Some teams move their cars into the garage on a dolly rather than the usual 2 point turn & reverse.

[type056]

is flexible front wings banned for next year?

[marcush.]

You can bet on RedBull NOT having any mechnical locks or devices on the car that would be easily detectable.
That would be CHEATING and would have draconic consequences if cought.the flex must come from something perfectly legal under the test conditions established by FIA but still able to move when needed...
"stealing a march on the opposition "as Newey has put it..

mind you flexible wings and undercarriage never were legal that is.

[forty-two]

is flexible front wings baned next year?

"Flexible wings", depending upon your interpretation are banned right now. I am not aware of any NEW rule changes which will move to further outlaw movable aerodynamic devices.

Is this what you meant.

[type056]

if it is not banned how rivals team can cope it.
can they copy it for next year design?

[strad]

I would like to understand why every time RB goes to pits, they lift up the front of the car before to move into the garages
i belive is the only team doing that
any reasonable explanation?

You're kidding right?
They all use dollies to make it easy to move the car around without having to do pull-ups.
edit
Sorry Rich,,,didn't see your answer

[speedsense]

Forty Two,
I posted this in the Formula one cars thread for the RBR accidently. In the photo ***note the two square tubings that would proceed the location of the splitter. Imagine a smaller insert tube mounted to the splitter that inserts into the tube to mount the splitter. This tube could be made to slide in and out and flexible when out. It won't need to move much, just enough to expose the flexible portion. It could have some sort of activation device from within the cockpit. In for the static tests, out for running. Kinda goes along with your theory.
Having built a few splitter's for Atlantic cars, this mounting on the RBR and the location of the square tubing, makes me curious. I do think that it would aid a fast removable of the splitter, ie to swap it with another in a hurry but I have never seen a mounting like this... And from the video at Singapore, is the apparent flex point upon hitting the curb...very interesting....

Interesting idea, indeed the simplest way I can think of having a setup work like this would be to have some sort of articulation of the driver's seat whereby when the driver's weight is on the seat, a locking pin is withdrawn allowing the splitter to move, and then during scrutineering (when presumably the driver is not in the car?????) the pin is in place holding the splitter still.

I don't however think that this is the explanation for the square holes you see in this picture, instead I believe that these channels go all the way to the back of the car and augment the diffusor. Take a look at the following picture of the Ferrari and I think that they're doing something similar:

[/quote]

The "channels" you see on the floor of the Ferrari are for strength for the stepped bottom and the form of the carbon floor, IMHO. They are the width of the tub. This is quite common in full one piece floors seen else where (IE, Indy car, ALMS,Indy Lights)
The tubing on the RBR seems to go inside the tub, as you can see when zoomed (300%) the plank has broken off (notice the shards of jab roc), and shows the breakage, however the floor above the plank (also can be seen) doesn't appear to have damage but rather appears to stop there (the floor being carbon and stronger than the jab rock plank),would have strands of carbon hanging about when broken apart), it never breaks that cleanly unless you cut it.
According to the static tests rules, the splitter is considered bodywork and is tested as such vertically at 2000N @ 5mm flex at 350mm aft from the rearward postion of the center line of the front wheels. The lower bodywork must stop 330mm aft from the front wheel center The regulation doesn't include up or down direction (implies either direction), but the test indication is an upward ram supplying the force.
The Singapore video clearly shows a lot more than 5mm of movement (30-50mm,IMHO) and a non bending motion "but a hinged one", again IMHO, and judging the location of the car, is through one of the four chicanes at Singapore putting the cornering speed somewhere between (85-135 Kph, IE-low downforce). So most of the forces acting on the splitter are the weight of the car (1300+lbs) and given the amount of movement of approx 50mm puts the force needed to move the object above 10KN (2248lbs) or some 700-900 lbs (depending on fuel) above the car. That leaves mostly the force of the curb hitting the splitter speed related (again we are talking a low speed corner).
IMHO, there's no doubt that the splitter is taking a hit that is much, much lower in forces than what the splitter "should" have been designed to take and not move, flex or break (IE hitting a curb at 180 mph, with high down force)
The RBR should have lifted the front wheels off the ground with this strike of the curb and that didn't happen, IMHO.
To go just a little further in my theory (and forty two's), the limiting factor for a lower ride height would be the splitter (with rake considered) and further more having the splitter move up WITHOUT resistance (thus not wearing the plank), would allow a much lower ride height than is achievable with a "solid, not moving, splitter."

[EightM]

I would expect since most poeple seem to think it is going on that alot of the cars next year will employ some flexing to a certain degree. Especially if the test continues to be inadequate.

[speedsense]

With the rules changing so much year to year, leaves a lot of flexibility (no pun intended) in changes of the "static test procedures" and other new tech development tests.
People like Newey, who have lived life through changes in rules, invite the changes because of the "lag" of tech to catch up to their own rules. The technology of the engineering and the tools behind the teams far eclipses the technology of the tech inspectors. There is a certain engineering "breath of life" that exists with rule changes at least for a short while, sometimes a full season or two.

[mariano.torre.gomez]

I would like to understand why every time RB goes to pits, they lift up the front of the car before to move into the garages
i belive is the only team doing that
any reasonable explanation?

I haven't noticed this, I will now have to review some footage to see this for myself.

Do you mean that when they come into the pits during FP or Quali, they lift the car on the front jack, then let it down before letting the driver pull away and roll the car backwards into the garage, even if they're not changing tyres?

If so, I suppose they might be doing this for perfectly rational "procedural" reasons, but if they and they alone are the only team doing this, then perhaps there's something in it.

Perhaps they have a mechanism which, when the wing gets upwards force relative to the chassis (which obviously would not normally happen while running) which engages the "stiffener" for the FW and Splitter, just in case of a surprise visit from a scrutineer

Yes exactly it works like you desribe it.
I believe they are the only team doing that, that hapens in friday 1&2and saturdays #3 sessions only not in qualifying and race.
of course is so ovbius That I can not belive that people on the padcok clever than us noticed , but I still dont understand why?