Silly Season 2011/2012

[Trailer23]

Williams need money right now, and if Senna has it, then he is welcome to the team.

Its amazing how teams are running after money these days. I mean I know teams have their expenses & all, but it kinda seems a bit...sad for a team like WilliamsF1 that has been around for so long looking for pay drivers. Its one thing to have one (Maldonado), but both drivers seems like a stretch - not to mention desperate.

Well anything to keep Karthikeyan's & Petrov's around.

Incidentally, wasn't Sir Frank Williams in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia last year to get sponsors. He's already bagged one sponsor from Qatar (Qtel).

[ESPImperium]

Williams need money right now, and if Senna has it, then he is welcome to the team.

Its amazing how teams are running after money these days. I mean I know teams have their expenses & all, but it kinda seems a bit...sad for a team like WilliamsF1 that has been around for so long looking for pay drivers. Its one thing to have one (Maldonado), but both drivers seems like a stretch - not to mention desperate.

Well anything to keep Karthikeyan's & Petrov's around.

Incidentally, wasn't Sir Frank Williams in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia last year to get sponsors. He's already bagged one sponsor from Qatar (Qtel).

QTel hasnt been signed yet, and isnt for sure due to Embratel being on the scene. From what ive read, Qutar National Bank are also looking for a deal, but not a title deal, they can strech to €50m over 3 seasons they are also wanting QTel, with a deal of €0m over the same period. However they want Rubens as a driver next year with Maldanado, But they want Maldanado to step aside for a "top" driver and also want the PDVSA money gone as they want a say in the running in the team i think, as well as a top driver (or at least one who has been at a top team) to build the team arround. Rubens has seemingly also secured funding to come to Williams next year as well, he did say the money isnt the issue for him to drive the car as all he wants to do is drive, so id expect him to take a pay cut as well.

Where as Bruno can bring a €18m from Embratel for a title deal and more from Gilette and other Brazilian companies. It is rumored that Senna has up to €27m behind him, as well as a smaller bill from Lotus thru Renault as Lotus want to keep Senna on their books if the Kimi situation turns sour, better to keep 2 or 3 drivers keen on the seat if things go sour.

The Williams problem is worrying. They shouldnt be searching for money to survive. I have a feeling that Williams is going to fracture sometime soon and we will have to se what the fallout brings.

I have a feeling that Williams as a F1 entry name is in the last few years of its existance. I have a overwhelming feeling that Williams will be taken over/sold, call it what you will by another manufacturer/company... Whatever, i just feel that Williams by 2015 or 2018 at the latest will be gone from F1. Ever since they lost the manufacturer backing and the technichal brilliance of Newey they have became a lost entity, almost a non F1 team dare i say. Its down to years, and years of mis-management and pride that have ruined the team i feel.

I think that Williams could have had as many as 5 more WDCs and a simmilar ammount of Constructors titles with the Newey brain behhind the BMW power they had for 5 years, and BMW posibly could have been able to have kept Vettel in their books and also had Kubica as his team mate, if not, it would have been Button or probably even Glock.

I also think they didnt fight Toyota too hard in 2009 when Toyota pulled out. They should have said, give us €XXm and we a season and we will be your works team, and persuaded Toyota to do a Renault, pull out as a Chassis manufacturer, but keep presence and become a engine only supplier. Also it would have put Kimui with Rubens, who would have given Kimui a great team mate to give him all he needed for a career in F1.

A F1 with 5 engine suppliers would probably been stronger than a F1 with just 4 i think.

[scuderiafan]

I feel the same way. 2010 looked like a good year for them to start climbing the ladder back up to the top, but I believe 2011 will be the blow that killed Williams, and 2012 to whenever they fold will just be years of Williams bleeding out as it were. Nothing lasts forever.

[Giblet]

Williams need money right now....

Well, since they are now trading publicly, you can sort of see how they are doing financially. I know it is not a true representation, but at least investors aren't jumping ship. They may do quite well if a major sponsor comes on board.

I'm not good at reading stocks, but it appears they have lost only .325% of the 60 million Euros that was floated.

When new sponsorship comes on board it will be interesting to see how the market reacts.

[Trailer23]

However they want Rubens as a driver next year with Maldanado, But they want Maldanado to step aside for a "top" driver and also want the PDVSA money gone as they want a say in the running in the team i think, as well as a top driver (or at least one who has been at a top team) to build the team arround.

Seems like WilliamsF1 has gotten themselves into quite a predicament.

1. They want the money from PDVSA, but PDVSA wants Maldanado.

2. They want the money from Qatar, but Qatar wants Rubens.

3. They want the money from Embratel, oh well U know the rest.

[Giblet]

I bet HRT or Marussia would kill to be in this 'horrible' predicament of having to pick a major sponsor out of 3.

[ESPImperium]

However they want Rubens as a driver next year with Maldanado, But they want Maldanado to step aside for a "top" driver and also want the PDVSA money gone as they want a say in the running in the team i think, as well as a top driver (or at least one who has been at a top team) to build the team arround.

Seems like WilliamsF1 has gotten themselves into quite a predicament.

1. They want the money from PDVSA, but PDVSA wants Maldanado.

2. They want the money from Qatar, but Qatar wants Rubens.

3. They want the money from Embratel, oh well U know the rest.

Pretty much got it in one. They need 1, 2 and 3, buc can only choose 2 of the options. Williams are also trying to plug a deficit in their accountd, they have a deficit of €14m in their accounts as the past 4 years they have made a loss due to the ammount of sponsors leaving the team.

Its why Williams have started selling "services" to other teams, Hispania pay €7m for their transmission & KERS deal and they are reportedly getting €500,000 per month from Caterham for the use of their Tunnel.

The problem with Williams technology and facilities is that its now roughly 18 to 24 months out of date as they have been throwing money at the technichal team, and not the facilities that would aid the team to do its job better. However the facilities are significantly better than what at least 3 teams have have had for the past 24 months.

I think this year can already be written off as Caughlan will want to get the technichal team working in the way it should, as well as get the facilities working to their optimum. Seemingly he has been redeploying the team from the 440 strong to the 375 he wants, to modrenize the team whilst and mould the team in the way he wants it. The people he didnt want have been redeployed to Hispania or Williams Hybrid.

Im saving judgement for Williams for 2013 or 2014. However if the team survives as Williams till then, thats another matter.

[Richard]

It occurred to me that the 4 oldest teams based on continuous ownership are Ferrari (1950), Williams (1978), McLaren (bought by Ron Dennis in 1981) & Red Bull (2005).

It puts the Williams issues in perceptive and why succession is such an issue to them, whereas other teams would sell out to the next money man to walk through the door.

It also puts the RB ownership in context, they are the 4th oldest team on the grid!

[raymondu999]

Does Renault; ex-Bennetton not count? Obviously not in 2012; but in 2011 THEY would've been 4th oldest

[Richard]

I'm looking at continuous ownership. The former Tolman team have been passed around a bit:

1981 Tolman
1986 Benetton
2000 Renault
2010 Genii

[ESPImperium]

Its the F1 Entry list first date of issue thats telling for age;

1950 - Scuderia Ferrari SpA
1978 - Williams Grand Prix Engineering
1981 - McLaren Project 4 Ltd
1981 - Tolemam, Benneton, Renault, Genii and now Lotus

The 4 above all get historical payments every yer in F1. Below that its,

1968 - Tyrell, British American Racing, Honda F1 Racing Team, Brawn Mercedes, Mercedes GP, Mercedes AMG
1985 - Minardi, Scuderia Toro Rosso
1991 - Jordan GP, Midland, Midland-Spykker, Spyker, Force India
1993 - Sauber, BMW Sauber, Sauber
1997 - Stewart Grand Prix, Jaguar Racing, Red Bull Racing
2009 - Manor GP, Virgin Racing, Marussia Racing
2009 - Campos GP, Hispania Racing
2009 - Lotus Racing, Team Lotus, Caterham F1

Id like to see 2 more teams in F1, but single car teams that have to outscore a 2 car team for 2 succcessive years to take a 2 car team birth.

[raymondu999]

@richard - right; forgot about the Genii deal. I was thinking along the lines of them staying Renault since 2000.

[Richard]

That list just shows the ability to navigate FIA politics. It shows Dennis's purchase of McLaren as a "new" team in 1981 but the Merc purchase of Brawn is a continuation of Tyrell.

I've just realised Sauber is probably the 4th oldest continuous ownership because Peter Sauber retained 20% during the BMW years.

Getting back to topic, only Williams & Ferrari have an unbroken ownership record and now Williams are struggling for cash, so I wonder how long they'll hold out for? that's why the driver selection for 2012 is so critical. They need drivers who can get them back into the points as well as drivers with cash.

[raymondu999]

Sounds like they need Fernando Alonsos

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Apologies for being a pedant, but....

Mercedes gp and Mercedes AMG are the same thing.