2012 Exhaust Blowing & Coanda

[raymondu999]

I'd say a Ferrari one snitched on the Merc and Renault lumps. Cosworth isn't really competing with them

[Hail22]

I'd say a Ferrari one snitched on the Merc and Renault lumps. Cosworth isn't really competing with them

Well whoever it was i'm glad they did it will hopefully bring the field in closer and cause a few moments of wheel on wheel action rather than massive gaps..

[CHT]

I'd say a Ferrari one snitched on the Merc and Renault lumps. Cosworth isn't really competing with them

Well whoever it was i'm glad they did it will hopefully bring the field in closer and cause a few moments of wheel on wheel action rather than massive gaps..

you make it sound like Ferrari already admit defeat even before the season begins.

[cirrusflyer]

I'd say a Ferrari one snitched on the Merc and Renault lumps. Cosworth isn't really competing with them

Well whoever it was i'm glad they did it will hopefully bring the field in closer and cause a few moments of wheel on wheel action rather than massive gaps..

you make it sound like Ferrari already admit defeat even before the season begins.

If true then I wonder why such a big rake of the car (almost biggest). I thought that engen maping helps with that concept. If they are weak on that department, why the rake then?

[banibhusan]

Isn't it true that the FIA released a statement back in October that they are going to forbid teams from running any level of off throttle maps that can enable them to use the exhaust gases for aerodynamic benefit. As far as I remember, there was a restriction that you can open the throttle for up to a maximum limit of 10% or 20 % something like that.

Then why are teams again trying to find a way past this when they know that FIA is not gonna allow it anymore? Someone please enlighten me..

[Hail22]

I'd say a Ferrari one snitched on the Merc and Renault lumps. Cosworth isn't really competing with them

Well whoever it was i'm glad they did it will hopefully bring the field in closer and cause a few moments of wheel on wheel action rather than massive gaps..

you make it sound like Ferrari already admit defeat even before the season begins.

Not all teams have mastered Cold blowing/Off throttle blowing including Force India.

This will help make all the teams bunch up together and higher intensity battles instead of *bblrrrrpppphhhttt* through the corner giving some speed and Vettel or Macca stays up front with no Challenge. Better to be a more compacted field instead of spread out...

[CHT]

Since teams are not putting same amount of effort and resources into technology and engineering, then why should we be expecting the cars to be equal?

If that is really FIA objective, then why would team bother to invest in technology? Wont it be easier to wait for others to come out with something brilliant and then make a protest for FIA to ban it.

Anyway if you want a more level playing field, switch to GP2 or other lower formula.

[CHT]

I think the impact on the team will be minimal. Ferrari will probably benefit from it, but it still wont be enough to put them in front. At least not at the moment.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

@banibhusan

There will never be zero exhaust gases coming out of the exhaust when the engine is running.
The FIA cannot totally ban off throttle exhaust gasses. As I understand it, the rule allows for 1 engine map. A Mercedes engineer explained this quite clearly.

“There is no accepted universal definition of what constitutes a map or a mode, but we draw a general distinction between a ‘mode’ and ‘mix’ settings: what the question refers to as a ‘map’ we would refer to as a
‘mode’, and what the question calls a ‘mode’ we would call ‘mix settings’.
Generally we accept that by “mode” we mean a broad description of a regime under which we run the engine. This defines the philosophy of ignition mapping, fuelling and the distribution of fuel cut strategies used to
achieve the torque that the driver demands. This is what the teams were no
longer allowed to change between qualifying and the race in Valencia.

Engine “mix” settings are detail changes to fuelling that are routinely
used during the race to reposition ourselves on the curve between fuel
consumption and engine power.”

And what happened post Valencia.

“Crucially, because all teams now use a common engine management system, there are limitations as to what any team can change with the car on-track, and these are only the engine “mix” settings. Fundamental changes to engine “modes”, where teams may chose to put aggressive or fuel-inefficient strategies into their cars for qualifying, can no longer be made for the race with the car in the garage or by the driver on-track.”

So to my mind, teams have circumvented the rule by using aggressive "modes" under the guise of "reposition ourselves on the curve between fuelconsumption and engine power."

And I have reviewed a couple of testing videos, and the most prominent car off throttle is....yup, Red Bull.

[Mandrake]

Not all teams have mastered Cold blowing/Off throttle blowing including Force India.

This will help make all the teams bunch up together and higher intensity battles instead of *bblrrrrpppphhhttt* through the corner giving some speed and Vettel or Macca stays up front with no Challenge. Better to be a more compacted field instead of spread out...

I doubt that this will happen. Blowing effects this year will by no means have a significance similar to last year. Furthermore, Renault has provided evidence that cold blowing is necessary to cool the engine. Should the FIA ban this now completely, they'd have to let Renault work on the engines in order to improve reliability.

And only to remind you, Silverstone '11 wasn't any closer than the other races last season

*Offtopic: How the hell did you manage to get 200+ Posts in just 2 weeks o.O

[Hail22]

I doubt that this will happen. Blowing effects this year will by no means have a significance similar to last year. Furthermore, Renault has provided evidence that cold blowing is necessary to cool the engine. Should the FIA ban this now completely, they'd have to let Renault work on the engines in order to improve reliability.

And only to remind you, Silverstone '11 wasn't any closer than the other races last season

*Offtopic: How the hell did you manage to get 200+ Posts in just 2 weeks o.O

Well FIA have instructed that it will go into affect before the Australia GP, i think there needs to be evidence of it to be seen as "cooling" instead of Renault jumping up and down saying so.

I don't know guess you will need to check the posts that i have made.

And CHT Formula 1 if you haven't realised the FIA are slowly closing options so that the field becomes more even to allow new money to enter (Volkswagen/Audi, PURE engines) if Formula 1 was meant to be about speed, innovation, technology, safety then 40% of these rules since 2007 would not be in place.

[beelsebob]

Makes me wonder. Who observed that the RB was still sounding like retarding the engine? Did someone not observe that early on?
Which other cars sounded like doing it? All Merc engine cars? And all RB ones?

Here we go the year of the 'Retardgate'.

I prefer the year of Retarded Retards Retarding.

[banibhusan]

@JET

Agreed!! There can never be 0 exhaust gases when the engine is off throttle. You need certain level of throttle overrun when the engine is off throttle, for reliability reasons. Last year some teams used to have much higher degree of over run which the FIA was trying to reduce. But its impossible to completely ban it.

Now I wonder whether all these new concepts that Mercedese is rumoured to have on the car will work if FIA becomes more strict with the engine mappings.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

@banibhusan

Mercedes, McLaren and Force India will probably lose out to Ferrari powered cars.
But I think the biggest losers will be Renault powered teams.

I don't see how Renault can have this benefit for "cooling" and "reliability" and the others cannot.
Given they have asked the FIA 3 or 4 times now to change their engine compared to 2 for Ferrari and 1 for Mercedes.

If the loop hole is shut, Renault will have to change to a previous spec engine not designed to spill excessive exhaust gasses to "cool" the engine.
If not, Ferrari Mercedes and Cosworth will need to be allowed to use cold blowing techniques or the equivalent hot blowing technique to be able to reach a state of equilibrium, somthing that has been afforded to Renault 3 times now.

[Kiril Varbanov]

@banibhusan
If the loop hole is shut, Renault will have to change to a previous spec engine not designed to spill excessive exhaust gasses to "cool" the engine.

And this is exactly where the reliability card will be played again, from Renault's side. IMHO.
Else, as you said, the rest should be allowed to modify their engines. But they are frozen. And such thing doesn't happen overnight.
So, on the engine front, there's always inequality. Renault have been allowed about 3 or 4 times to modify their engine, right?
Interesting the see the real output of that story.