Sauber F1 Team 2015

[Manoah2u]

I don't know about that, this is not an office job. Not giving him the seat means taking away from him the chance to compete in the 2015 Formula One World Championship. It is more than just a job with a salary, it is also a service that Sauber (allegedly) agreed to provide to Giedo van der Garde.

You are right, it is not an office job. He's a driver, a commodity just like a professional football or hockey player, he goes or does what the team tells him to do. If he gets to drive or are benched are up to the manager if he's fired he has the right to restitution but he's still fired.

I'd love to see a court force New England Patriots, Real Madrid or SC Bern to start a player they do not want because they "provide a service" to him.

You are talking about team sports which is totally irrelevant as the WDC is an individual competition.

are you kidding me? Sauber is a team, they are interested in the services of a WCC points. You work as a team.
Every member of the team has to comply to the team's rules and goals to achieve that certain team's intentions.

F1 is not a sport where you just pick a car and go drive on your own like you grab a convertible and cruise along the coastline.

[mkable1370]

You are talking about team sports which is totally irrelevant as the WDC is an individual competition.

are you kidding me? Sauber is a team, they are interested in the services of a WCC points. You work as a team.
Every member of the team has to comply to the team's rules and goals to achieve that certain team's intentions.

F1 is not a sport where you just pick a car and go drive on your own like you grab a convertible and cruise along the coastline.

I have to side with Per on this. In the context of a healthy F1 driver - team relationship, the interaction is supposed to be beneficial to both parties and both get to compete in F1. At its simplest level, I can completely understand GVDG's position (as best I can with what limited information is publicly available!). Depending on contract wording and interpretation, this case could conceivably be boiled down to someone paying for services and someone providing said services. The pay-driver (assuming that GVDG is such) competing for the WDC is basically paying for services (i.e. a seat in F1, however that is spelled out in contract) and Sauber are the party providing the service for that fee paid by the driver.

[bdr529]

I don't know about that, this is not an office job. Not giving him the seat means taking away from him the chance to compete in the 2015 Formula One World Championship. It is more than just a job with a salary, it is also a service that Sauber (allegedly) agreed to provide to Giedo van der Garde.

You are right, it is not an office job. He's a driver, a commodity just like a professional football or hockey player, he goes or does what the team tells him to do. If he gets to drive or are benched are up to the manager if he's fired he has the right to restitution but he's still fired.

I'd love to see a court force New England Patriots, Real Madrid or SC Bern to start a player they do not want because they "provide a service" to him.

Contracts in the NFL are not guaranteed, a player can be released from his deal at any time with no compensation.
Athletes contracts for NFL NHL MLB NBA are part of their collective bargaining agreement with the players union and the individual leagues, NHL and Baseball contracts are guaranteed, I don't know about Basketball(NBA) or Soccer/football

[Jonnycraig]

Van Der Garde wins.

Tick tick boom.

[kooleracer]

Van Der Garde wins.

Tick tick boom.

So glad he has won, just plain childish how Sauber handled both the contract of Sutil and Van de Garde. So the next step is for Nasr or Ericsson to sue Sauber. Monisha is pulling here hair out at the moment i can imagine.

[Sniffit]

I have to side with Per on this. In the context of a healthy F1 driver - team relationship, the interaction is supposed to be beneficial to both parties and both get to compete in F1.

And you would have most of us agree with you IF the driver is there because he's among [MIB mode]the best of the best[/MIB mode] or happen to be at the start of his career.
vdG is niether, he is not among the most talented or most promising, he is(was) there because he has money.
When bigger fish came along he lost his only competative edge and it was no longer beneficial for the team to retain him.
Or do you suggest that the team should have given him a seat and ignored the fact that what he brought to the table no longer was what was in their best interest?

[AnthonyG]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=auzfTPp4moA

[PhantomPoster]

Van Der Garde wins.

Tick tick boom.

So glad he has won, just plain childish how Sauber handled both the contract of Sutil and Van de Garde. So the next step is for Nasr or Ericsson to sue Sauber. Monisha is pulling here hair out at the moment i can imagine.

So you're happy that all Sauber employees will now most likely be jobless because of a rich kid crying he couldn't drive a car on a Sunday?

It's a bit sick siding with a millionaire over 300 people on low salaries with families to feed. Each to their own.

[Sniffit]

Van Der Garde wins.

Tick tick boom.

Do you have a link?

[Per]

I have to side with Per on this. In the context of a healthy F1 driver - team relationship, the interaction is supposed to be beneficial to both parties and both get to compete in F1.

And you would have most of us agree with you IF the driver is there because he's among [MIB mode]the best of the best[/MIB mode] or happen to be at the start of his career.
vdG is niether, he is not among the most talented or most promising, he is(was) there because he has money.
When bigger fish came along he lost his only competative edge and it was no longer beneficial for the team to retain him.
Or do you suggest that the team should have given him a seat and ignored the fact that what he brought to the table no longer was what was in their best interest?

Look, it's simple. If you have two seats, don't sell three. Just because it is "no longer beneficial for the team to retain him" doesn't mean they can ignore the law and do whatever they want. An arbitrary institution and a supreme court have sided with that, I can't understand how you are still trying to defend Sauber...

[Per]

Van Der Garde wins.

Tick tick boom.

So glad he has won, just plain childish how Sauber handled both the contract of Sutil and Van de Garde. So the next step is for Nasr or Ericsson to sue Sauber. Monisha is pulling here hair out at the moment i can imagine.

So you're happy that all Sauber employees will now most likely be jobless because of a rich kid crying he couldn't drive a car on a Sunday?

It's a bit sick siding with a millionaire over 300 people on low salaries with families to feed. Each to their own.

If the team goes down because of that, then it is in the first place the fault of the person who sold two available seats to three different people. That is plain mismanagement and should, in my opinion, lead to criminal charges if leading to bankruptcy.

[Richard]

This happens in many walks of life. Staff member is dismissed, goes to court to say it wasn't fair, court agrees and orders company to remploy that member of staff, company says the relationship has irrevocably broken down, court instructs bigger payment instead.

The point is that this route results in a bigger payout than the usual termination of contract.

So forget VDG actually driving, this all about establishing the principle that he was entitled to that seat and he did nothing wrong.

It'll not be the first time an F1 driver has been dumped for another with a richer sponsor. Life's like that,companies are free to change supplier. Even in mid contract if they pay the appropriate damages. It works both ways, Jenson Button was signed up to two teams at once.

Finally, there are some emotional posts in the thread. My advice is to be curious about what is going on but don't take it personally, it's just two service companies in a contractual dispute.

ps - There might be another twist, I've a vague memory of a football (soccer) player getting an injunction to force his way back into a team, can't remember who. VDG might get an injunction to prohibit Sauber racing without him, that'll mean Sauber will have to agree to pay off VDG before they can get on track.

[Manoah2u]

how about some reports of this case ruling, and sauber's reactions to this

[Sniffit]

Look, it's simple. If you have two seats, don't sell three.

I agree.

Just because it is "no longer beneficial for the team to retain him" doesn't mean they can ignore the law and do whatever they want.

I agree

An arbitrary institution and a supreme court have sided with that, I can't understand how you are still trying to defend Sauber...

Yes, I never challanged the question of a valid contract or not. I have not seen the contract or read any verdict.

I said that I think it is wrong for a court to force a team to accept a driver it does not want. I also said that drivers should be treated as any other athlete, which include losing your seat/position as long as ample restitution is payed.

[kooleracer]

Van Der Garde wins.

Tick tick boom.

So glad he has won, just plain childish how Sauber handled both the contract of Sutil and Van de Garde. So the next step is for Nasr or Ericsson to sue Sauber. Monisha is pulling here hair out at the moment i can imagine.

So you're happy that all Sauber employees will now most likely be jobless because of a rich kid crying he couldn't drive a car on a Sunday?

It's a bit sick siding with a millionaire over 300 people on low salaries with families to feed. Each to their own.

Why are you attacking Giedo personally, the amount off backing he receives has nothing to do with this case. This case was plain and simple. Did he valid contract with the team, yes or no? According to two judges he has a valid contract so Sauber must adhere to that. Case closed.

How many dogs, cats, wives or cars Mr. Van de Garde owns is totally irrelevant. Sauber is resonsible for its employees not Giedo van de Garde because he is also an employee like the other 300 you just mentioned. Why are the jobs of the mechanics more important then the job of a F1 driver. If you are so emotional about the employees, why does Van de Garde doesn't get your support. Talking about double standards.

Sauber shouldn't have appointed 4 race drivers, thats on them if they wanted to get rid of Giedo the should have done it the proper way. Like a professional team does, with lawyers and a sufficient financial settlement. They have 4 drivers on the book and they just ignored 2 of them. How the hell is Van de Garde responsible for that situation.....