No More Grid Girls - replaced by Grid Kids

[NathanOlder]

If you cannot see that the women are there because of their looks and not any function at all, thus: their role is to be desired. As objects. I am _against_ this. So, of the guys bickering in here, on the one hand you have guys that _want_ to consume women as objects and you have me. I do not wish to see women as objects in this fashion here.

So we should ban or disallow pretty much any advertisements where attractive women (and men too) are used as "objects". Fashion magazines? Models? Those poor women.

Next, we should possibly ban sexy outfits too, period. What's the point, it just makes us (men) perceive them as objects. How dare we allow such a thing to happen!

Well put Phil,

Why do men and women wear nice clothes, sexy clothes, posh clothes ect ..... to impress when people LOOK at you.

[NathanOlder]

I spent my upvotes today on Hurril, glad to read on open minded and respectful opinion, even if others choose to disagree with that viewpoint.

We all like to see an elegant women (or at least I do) but if there was nothing wrong on why we see this in our world, where are the gridboys? Where is the boybeauty 2018 contest lower Missouri (starting with age class 4?) where are the thousands of stories of boys and young men being sexually intimidated or even being raped by succesfull businesswomen, entertainment stars, movie stars etc? (yes the catholic church goes some way to "rectify" that (but only because priest may not touch women, and are "devout" ) Where is the first female president of the US that jokingly can state "grab em by the dick" and still remain in office?

Maybe we actually do still have a the problem of inequity between men and women and from that viewpoint it is not such a bad idea to do some symbolic action in one of the worlds largest sports/glamour shows (F1).

I would happily agree with the point about having men and women doing this job.

Me too, I suggested yesterday, why not have 10 men and 10 women. but that was shot down by the PC brigade too. As for stories of boys/men being intimidated or raped, It probably happens just as much, but the world isnt listening to that right now, its all about Powerful men abusing their powers.

[NathanOlder]

The problem I have is with using escort girls to sell me motor sport. That is degrading _against me_. "You are a man that likes motorsport. Quick: take a look at these tits." WTF?!

Looks like you're the one with the problem if you insist on objectifying women to that degree. I've never thought of the Grid Girls in those terms at all. Do you have a problem with fashion models by any chance? Is that degrading against you too that an aesthetically pleasing person is gainfully employed doing something they have chosen to do?

The big problem with the liberal PC brigade is their willingness to project their own issues onto other people and to take offence where none was intended and even be offended for 3rd parties on their behalf. I take offence at the male chauvinism that removes the agency from women to choose whatever the --- they want to do for a job because some prurient snowflake may take offence.

I thought the Grid Girls/Boys were a bit of decoration that was largely pointless and boring job until I heard one interviewed and she thoroughly enjoyed doing the work and in her experience she was made to feel part of the team. In the lower formulas they're expected to know information about the drivers and the team, to engage with the public and act as part of the PR team. She did not sound like a number holding bimbo selling sex to car enthusiasts.

+1

[bonjon1979]

Please, someone say it's so people in the crowd can know which car is which. They hold their boards facing towards the start line. Hardly anyone can see what's on the boards as they're viewed from the side. We all understand which car is which on the grid and the teams know where their cars line up.

like i said, I thought it was for the drivers to find their grid spots in the crowd of people.

The drivers kill the engine and the team wheel them to the spot on a dolly. It's just not true.

[hurril]

The problem I have is with using escort girls to sell me motor sport. That is degrading _against me_. "You are a man that likes motorsport. Quick: take a look at these tits." WTF?!

Looks like you're the one with the problem if you insist on objectifying women to that degree. I've never thought of the Grid Girls in those terms at all. Do you have a problem with fashion models by any chance? Is that degrading against you too that an aesthetically pleasing person is gainfully employed doing something they have chosen to do?

The big problem with the liberal PC brigade is their willingness to project their own issues onto other people and to take offence where none was intended and even be offended for 3rd parties on their behalf. I take offence at the male chauvinism that removes the agency from women to choose whatever the --- they want to do for a job because some prurient snowflake may take offence.

I thought the Grid Girls/Boys were a bit of decoration that was largely pointless and boring job until I heard one interviewed and she thoroughly enjoyed doing the work and in her experience she was made to feel part of the team. In the lower formulas they're expected to know information about the drivers and the team, to engage with the public and act as part of the PR team. She did not sound like a number holding bimbo selling sex to car enthusiasts.

The fact that the grid girls are there just as objects is not a debate here. You can like it and you can dislike it but you cannot dispute it. Let's call a spade a spade. And you are correct: I do have a problem with that, glad you're able to pick up on that.

Then you're wrong though. I am not a liberal and I am not PC. Did you see where I explicitly stated that I have no problem with there being tittybars, escorts, prostitution, etc? I don't care and I don't judge. To each his or her own and I'll be happy for you if you enjoy your profession.

If you want to reply then please have something that is counter to what I state. Don't just dismiss me as being one of them liberals (insert southern drawl.)

[hurril]

If you cannot see that the women are there because of their looks and not any function at all, thus: their role is to be desired. As objects. I am _against_ this. So, of the guys bickering in here, on the one hand you have guys that _want_ to consume women as objects and you have me. I do not wish to see women as objects in this fashion here.

So we should ban or disallow pretty much any advertisements where attractive women (and men too) are used as "objects". Fashion magazines? Models? Those poor women.

Next, we should possibly ban sexy outfits too, period. What's the point, it just makes us (men) perceive them as objects. How dare we allow such a thing to happen!

Bang, right ... next to the target again. Sorry What most of you are doing is:

"Letting people drink and drive causes accidents because the driver's reaction time goes through the roof!"
- WTF you leftist SJW liberal PC. Why do you want to ban alcohol?!!?
"I don't. I drink plenty myself. It's delicious; I should really drink more. But you should really not drink and drive."
- OMG you idiot, why do you hate cars? What did they do to hurt you? You know, the problem is really with you, see?
"No. I love cars. I love the booze."
- So you're saying it's the victim's fault that they get hit by cars?
"... no. No I don'..."
- You MORON! So now that you want to close all liquor stores, they are unemployed. Happy now?
"Wtf!"

I question the appropriateness of using women to sell motorshows.

I do not question: escorts, women, motorshows, correctness, your thoughts, nakedness.

[Phil]

You analogy doesn't make sense. I appreciate you are not questioning these many things. I am questioning the argument that using grid-girls portrays them as "objects" and assuming there is truth to this, why is this bad? Is it not fair then to question any other practice where women are used to "sell" using their looks/bodies i.e. fashion magazines and ads? It's the same thing.

[hurril]

You analogy doesn't make sense. I appreciate you are not questioning these many things. I am questioning the argument that using grid-girls portrays them as "objects" and assuming there is truth to this, why is this bad? Is it not fair then to question any other practice where women are used to "sell" using their looks/bodies i.e. fashion magazines and ads? It's the same thing.

But I do question the use of women as objects in that manner. It is something I generally dislike but not because it is degrading to the women in question; it's degrading to the consumers. Which is fine, of course. Things can be degrading, I accept that. But I also criticise it because, to me, that is what brings things forward.

The women there are not portraid as objects. They _are_ objects. A female driver getting medals and points because she's awesome is not an object in an of herself, but if all anyone ever wants to know of her is pictures of her tits, then that would be portraying her as an object. (When in reality, she's an awesome driver.)

These girls are just objects. They serve no other function. And what ticks me off is that they are there "for me" in the sense that, I am a fan and they are there for me to rest my eyes on. Sure, I can look away and I never see that part of the start anyway so it's not like I'm suffering. That is not the point, that I am some man child that is unable to moderate what he partakes in. It's the intention that is... tacky.

We have these magnificent machines, these brilliant engineers, extraordinary drivers, this awesome event and all of it for the glory of winning. I love it.

... and then we have some rotten page three show of girls. Wtf.

[CBeck113]

Just make every team put a marketing person there to answer questions from the press, doesn't matter if male or female. That makes the job legitimate (usually the women are hired from a modeling agency, so they won't be jobless without F1), and puts more substance into it. If Team X wants to put a beautiful, knowledgeable woman in that position, no problem, but then its a team member and not a mannequin.

Second suggestion: let retired drivers do it instead

[NathanOlder]

Please, someone say it's so people in the crowd can know which car is which. They hold their boards facing towards the start line. Hardly anyone can see what's on the boards as they're viewed from the side. We all understand which car is which on the grid and the teams know where their cars line up.

like i said, I thought it was for the drivers to find their grid spots in the crowd of people.

The drivers kill the engine and the team wheel them to the spot on a dolly. It's just not true.

I know thats the case now, I assumed it was for 60's 70's era ?

[Big Mangalhit]

I really enjoy this discussion. There are good arguments to both sides and I think the question itself is too deep for us to get a right and wrong answer.

But there is just an argument I can't understand and it has been used a lot which is that the girls will lose their jobs (???). I mean is that really a job? can you make a living out of a 30min holding of a number plate once per year? Cause if you can, then I'm 100% pro the grid girls and will in fact make a sex change and apply myself for that.

You know how this could be solved IMO, having grid people (any gender, age, etc.) but make it 100% volunteer. I'll bet the same way we have volunteer ball boys in other sports we'd have volunteer people for this. If it was 100% self-choice and with no interests, I don't think it could be sexist, or could it? Even if girls would like to do it in fancy dresses (mind that as presented before they are not even that sexualising, probably not even the more revealing dresses on the paddock) would it not be the same as them posting sexy pics on instagram or whatever?

[McHonda]

The promo girls will still do the sponsor events during the GP weekend I'd imagine, it's just F1 giving them the elbow from the grid because they want to appeal to women as well as men and they can't put grid guys out there without the drivers putting their foot in it so it's easier to just remove the girls.

[jz11]

You analogy doesn't make sense. I appreciate you are not questioning these many things. I am questioning the argument that using grid-girls portrays them as "objects" and assuming there is truth to this, why is this bad? Is it not fair then to question any other practice where women are used to "sell" using their looks/bodies i.e. fashion magazines and ads? It's the same thing.

But I do question the use of women as objects in that manner. It is something I generally dislike but not because it is degrading to the women in question; it's degrading to the consumers. Which is fine, of course. Things can be degrading, I accept that. But I also criticise it because, to me, that is what brings things forward.

The women there are not portraid as objects. They _are_ objects. A female driver getting medals and points because she's awesome is not an object in an of herself, but if all anyone ever wants to know of her is pictures of her tits, then that would be portraying her as an object. (When in reality, she's an awesome driver.)

These girls are just objects. They serve no other function. And what ticks me off is that they are there "for me" in the sense that, I am a fan and they are there for me to rest my eyes on. Sure, I can look away and I never see that part of the start anyway so it's not like I'm suffering. That is not the point, that I am some man child that is unable to moderate what he partakes in. It's the intention that is... tacky.

We have these magnificent machines, these brilliant engineers, extraordinary drivers, this awesome event and all of it for the glory of winning. I love it.

... and then we have some rotten page three show of girls. Wtf.

This is totally my assumption, based on nothing but my personal opinion:

They might be there to capture attention of somebody that has a very limited attention span, grid or the way to the podium is basically a really boring parade, nothing happens there, so someone though - hey, this is a mans sports basically, lets put some good looking women there to make the show prettier. It doesn't work for you personally, ok, but maybe it does on the whatever percentage or count of the rest of the audience? And it is a show, and it is their business to keep as much attention on the show as possible. Me personally, I will not be able to tell you what the grid girls looked like in the last GP, I probably saw them, for a split second maybe, but I didn't notice their tit size or lipstick color, or even dress color, now that they are gone, I will not miss them, but I take offence on the BS that is being portrayed as the REAL reason behind it, how damaging it was to the society in general that this nonsensical sex object parade was allowed to continue for such a long time...

Now that the management has shifted focus on capturing younger audience (men and women), who are not as "dumb" as older generation on men, who could be manipulated just by inserting a pretty woman here and there to prevent them from changing a channel on a tv, younger ones are very sensitive to this feminazi agenda, so of course the grid girls have to go, else there will be no end to the constant stream of poop written everywhere about how F1 is exploiting poor young women, can't have that.

basically, I'm offended by you getting offended by what I think is a general nonissue

meanwhile, in F1 war room it goes something like - let's have them bickering about the grid girls, that will make them forget about that ugly arse roll bar we put there on the car because, heck, I even forgot why we had to do it, but anyway, lets move on to the subject of preventing any and all possible innovation by those pesky engineers, we need to add some more development restrictions, and implement more of those, what they were called - cost reduction measures, one engine for 6 races, at the development cost of 15 engines that would last single weekend, yeah, lets focus on that

[NathanOlder]

Or more importantly..... Its February , the same month as ALL the car launches, and Testing begins! Were nearly there guys!

[Restomaniac]

I really enjoy this discussion. There are good arguments to both sides and I think the question itself is too deep for us to get a right and wrong answer.

But there is just an argument I can't understand and it has been used a lot which is that the girls will lose their jobs (???). I mean is that really a job? can you make a living out of a 30min holding of a number plate once per year? Cause if you can, then I'm 100% pro the grid girls and will in fact make a sex change and apply myself for that.

You know how this could be solved IMO, having grid people (any gender, age, etc.) but make it 100% volunteer. I'll bet the same way we have volunteer ball boys in other sports we'd have volunteer people for this. If it was 100% self-choice and with no interests, I don't think it could be sexist, or could it? Even if girls would like to do it in fancy dresses (mind that as presented before they are not even that sexualising, probably not even the more revealing dresses on the paddock) would it not be the same as them posting sexy pics on instagram or whatever?

More than 1 of the former grid girls have stared that the money earned went towards their education. Also it already is 100% self-choice. Well in countries that have western ideals of freedom of choice (I don't know about states that have more state control of citizens).

I don't think it is sexist at all. I would however like it to be opened up to both sexes if it were to somehow stay. As you say the clothes were not even extraordinary. You see that kind of outfit in the summer everyday.