Alpine A521

[godlameroso]

https://files.catbox.moe/vwsgzb.jpg

Anyone else notice how big the leading edge of the floor has gotten this year?

Looks similar to 2020 IMHO
https://i.imgur.com/1e2Zucv.jpg

Look at what I circled, the opening is almost as high as the sidepod ducts in 2021.

[trinidefender]

Because I wasnt talking about the CoG height, but about the CoG position on the (x) longitunal axis : )
So figure (1) vs figure (2) in pink.
So the Renault CCS layout vs the RB/AT/Alfa/Mclaren CCS layout
https://i.imgur.com/WIEkasm.jpg

Understood. My apologies.

[PlatinumZealot]

Centerline cooling is worse for COG because it raises the heavy coolers high up in the car compared to lower down in the sidepods. This raising of the COG increases the rolling motion of the car in corners meaning stronger roll control is required. Ergo less compliant suspension reducing mechanical grip.
Renault probably thinks the increase in diffuser performance offsets the increase in center of gravity height and the loss in rear wing performance.

That's what he said if you read the full quote : )

What Bell and Chester said agrees with me that centerline cooling is worse for COG. But your use of, "but for weight distribution reasons too" makes it sound like centerline cooling gives a weight distribution advantage over having the coolers in the sidepods.

I am in agreement with my Caribbean forumer.

Its aerodynamics. The air intake and rear wing are already creating a "shadow" for the centre line coolers to fit into. It's easy to put them there and have a cleaner flow in the side pod.

To show how insensitive the central cooler is to air flow (it doesnt need much air flow it just needs a big tempersture gradient) you see that big air intake duct behind it and it is still able to function fine. It has totally different air flow requirements from side pod radiators. It makes sense to put it somewhere else instead of hampering the flow of other more sensitive radiators.

At the end of the day more efficient air flow is the result.

[PlatinumZealot]

Because I wasnt talking about the CoG height, but about the CoG position on the (x) longitunal axis : )
So figure (1) vs figure (2) in pink.
So the Renault CCS layout vs the RB/AT/Alfa/Mclaren CCS layout
https://i.imgur.com/WIEkasm.jpg

This makes sense but it is not a rule and doesn't explain why the renault uppper cover is that wide.

I still feel it is aero related and Just different designs.

Renault engine in redbull.




More space on top of the Honda engine of course. They could be put more stuff up there. You can see that they were not really worrying about being close to the CoG.



Yes Renault is a heavier car, but we have no evidence to say wether its weight distribution was so bad they had to put the cooler in that location and make it that wide because of weight distribution.

It's the size of the upper cover I thought we are talking about though more than the cooler location. So why i was thinking of width and size.
I think its just air flow..

[PlatinumZealot]

Because I wasnt talking about the CoG height, but about the CoG position on the (x) longitunal axis : )
So figure (1) vs figure (2) in pink.
So the Renault CCS layout vs the RB/AT/Alfa/Mclaren CCS layout

Number three is not correct.
It is a liquid cooler up there.
You can tell by the small diameter of the pipes in photos.

I have no idea if it is water or oil though.

[Blackout]

The real CCS is a water ERS cooler AFAIK
(a rear view of it below)

Figure number 3 is just speculation.. what if they replace the air-air intercoolers with a water-air intercooler like the Mercedes factory team or the Ferrari teams?

https://i.imgur.com/CHaurM0.jpg

[PlatinumZealot]

Yup. It is wide to allow air to flow around as expected.

But you do have a point... Let's explore.

Of they mounted it on the back.

1) the cooler could be narrower/ smaller? Horizontal?

2) The engine intake would have to go under the cooling duct to the cooler. Having sharper kinks possibly flow restriction to engine? Can we assume that the existing layout is for wngine power then?!

3) the back of the engine cover might have to be higher

4) Possibly less free space on top of the gearbox so some exhaust upflow from side pod could be restricted more?

5) Weight distribution.... How big is this effect though? The cooler weighs maybe 3kg full of liquid. But it would aslo be smaller..

6) other reasons?

[FW17]

In comparison to this the Ferrari system of having the inter cooler in the V of the engine is just awesome.

[FW17]

This makes sense but it is not a rule and doesn't explain why the renault uppper cover is that wide.

They have kept it wide as they have the Y shaped duct and coolers on top of the fuel tank. which are on either side of the ducts running to feed air to to turbo intake and another cooler. They could have shrunk the engine cover closer there by directing the out flow from the Y shaped cooler down, but Renault have chosen to run them straight back. The solution could probably reduce internal drag.

I remember in 2010 - 11 times when Renault used to have the largest sidepods, and Red Bull the smallest. Renault had a much lower drag in comparison to Red Bull

[JordanMugen]

In comparison to this the Ferrari system of having the inter cooler in the V of the engine is just awesome.

Don't many road cars use a air-to-water intercooler now, placed near the engine inlet ports? Is Renault using air-to-air, hence the enormous bulge?

[Blackout]

In comparison to this the Ferrari system of having the inter cooler in the V of the engine is just awesome.

Don't many road cars use a air-to-water intercooler now, placed near the engine inlet ports? Is Renault using air-to-air, hence the enormous bulge?

Renault's air-air intercoolers are in the sidepods (atleast from 2016 to 2020). Similar to these Caterham diagrams, in purple (an all-in-the sidepods layout)
The Renault CCS above the engine is an ERS radiator.

[Blackout]

This makes sense but it is not a rule and doesn't explain why the renault uppper cover is that wide.

They have kept it wide as they have the Y shaped duct and coolers on top of the fuel tank. which are on either side of the ducts running to feed air to to turbo intake and another cooler. They could have shrunk the engine cover closer there by directing the out flow from the Y shaped cooler down, but Renault have chosen to run them straight back. The solution could probably reduce internal drag.

I remember in 2010 - 11 times when Renault used to have the largest sidepods, and Red Bull the smallest. Renault had a much lower drag in comparison to Red Bull

https://static.carthrottle.com/workspac ... b6f0be.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/rrfiw8D.jpg?1
http://img1.auto-motor-und-sport.de/Tor ... 903195.jpg

It's a rather trapezoid-shaped cooler with a squarish-trapezoid roll hoop air duct
Thar STR engine oil cooler was was Y-shaped

Yup. It is wide to allow air to flow around as expected.

For me too, it seems that the hot air downstream from the CCS flowed relatively freely around the compressor duct and the gearbox rad duct, and went down to escape from the rear exit, with the sidepod hot air...

Do you think they added new ducts behind the CCS to better manage that air, hence the bulkier roll hoop bodywork?

[FW17]

Also the Ferrari intake manifold is so compact in comparison, that the Renault looks like a Amazon delivery box.

Hope they really get things bucked down with some aggressive packaging. Their XXL approach really needs some slimming down.

I wish the dyno engines they are testing is done as complete package with all the coolers, rather than just the engine like they have been doing all these years. I guess that should be possible now that they have upgraded the facility.

[JordanMugen]

Renault's air-air intercoolers are in the sidepods (atleast from 2016 to 2020). Similar to these Caterham diagrams, in purple (an all-in-the sidepods layout)
The Renault CCS above the engine is an ERS radiator.
https://i.imgur.com/dWdVtvN.jpg

The intercoolers are the purple ones? Wow, they are enormous and are located in the worst possible place, right in front of the diffuser coke bottle area.

[Blackout]

Also the Ferrari intake manifold is so compact in comparison, that the Renault looks like a Amazon delivery box.

Hope they really get things bucked down with some aggressive packaging. Their XXL approach really needs some slimming down.

I wish the dyno engines they are testing is done as complete package with all the coolers, rather than just the engine like they have been doing all these years. I guess that should be possible now that they have upgraded the facility.

The Renault plenum is relatively compact and innovative. It has an agressive packaging and integration: Its charge-air inlets (red arrow and red covers) connect directly to the monocoque (blue arrow and blue circle) and the cooled charge-air flows through a duct that takes a shortcut through the monocoque (a bit like the blue duct I added to the modified Scarbs drawing below)
The intercooler does the same and connects to the monocoque on the other end.
So it's not like the other' cars, or the blue intercooler pipe that you can see on the caterham diagrams above. https://i.imgur.com/dWdVtvN.jpg