2014 Design

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eyalynf1
eyalynf1
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Joined: 24 May 2011, 01:05

Re: 2014 Design

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It occurred to me this morning that the exhaust position may have a detrimental effect on the rear crash structure. I would imagine the hot exhaust in such close proximity would damage the resin and fibers of the structure. Will the teams change to composition of the structure to account for this? Would the Zircotec coating be enough to protect the structure?

I think this same issue would put any potential center pylon solution in jeopardy. Also, the underside of the the rear wing might be affected due to the upwash air under the wing.

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ringo
232
Joined: 29 Mar 2009, 10:57

Re: 2014 Design

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Who's putting these things in these magazines nowadays? :lol:
I doubt we'll see any "anteater" noses. The vanity panel thing is best with a narrower design.

not all the times does going to the boundary of a regulation means that the boundary is aerodynamically maximal.

That vanity panel will more than likely be more smoother in shape, with more air being pushed to the side.
You many not have a clean flow with that nose and panel under croft as you would imagine.
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henra
henra
53
Joined: 11 Mar 2012, 19:34

Re: 2014 Design

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ringo wrote: That vanity panel will more than likely be more smoother in shape, with more air being pushed to the side.
Hmm, I doubt it.
Why would you want to have air mviong to the side?
You want it moved down to the floor and definitely not colliding with the inward flow surrounding the font tyres.

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ringo
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Re: 2014 Design

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Yes you want air down to the floor, but it depends on how high you are taking that air from and how far back.
You do run a risk of creating some lift from the reaction force of that air being pushed down.
Also with the vanity panel in that design, there's probably 2 inches on each side, so i don't see it pushing much volume of air down even if we ignore any lift.

But this is all opinion, we wont know till it's tested.

Did a nose myself, just tried to keep things simple. Not saying it's a better design but i'm just sharing it on the board.
I'll investigate the middle finger or anteater or whatever you call it vanity panel later.

Image

went with a concave shape on the top of the nose. This is best for downforce creation. That hole at the top is to break the momentum change of that cancave shape as the air comes over the top of the monocoque.

Image

Decided to narrow the neck of the crash structure. This way i bring in air under the nose. It will naturally go there due to the shape without being forced by the vanity panel. Note the high pressure developed by the concave shape, i'll make it eliptical later. :lol:

Image
Side view, somewhat like the old school of thought in terms of how the looks came out. As i said, the concave shape on top is what gives the old shcool flavour, but it's really function over fashion.
Well that's it for me in terms of noses. Not the most exciting, but just went with a safe reasonable expectation.

The duckbill has a reason for being as it is. The regs have a location for the centroid of the shape. The make the bottom side of this shape as high as possble, we need to make it as close to that 185mm specified in the regs. Making the nose as wide as possible will mean that a shorter height will be required to meet the minimum area of 9000mm square. the nose tip is 250mm x 36mm here, and the base of the tip is 18mm away from the 185 mm centroid. This makes the tip as high as possible.
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Mitsuro Sano
Mitsuro Sano
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Joined: 13 Dec 2013, 20:59

Re: 2014 Design

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Interesting design Ringo! But for the moment, without the vanity panel, your nose seems to fall into the rules 3.7.8, especially the nose pillars.

I've tried also to make a more "conventional" ( but also very ugly ) nose with the tip not being at 185mm but 300mm high.

The nose may be illegal but, from what I understand, the center area of the cross section of the crash structure at his foremost point minus 50mm has to be at max 185mm high and no part of this cross section has to be lower than 135mm or higher than 250mm ( Article 15.4.3 ). But bodywork which is no part of the crash structure can be at max 300mm ahead of the foremost point of the crash structure.

So here is the global view of the nose :
Image

The bottom part of the nose may have some similarities with the nose of the '13 Marussia, by trying to make a kind of pelican nose in order to make the nose itself generating a bit of downforce ( I was forced to do that design because of the rule 15.4.3 )

On this picture, you can see the nose crash structure in black, the vanity panel in blue and bodywork in red:
Image

With the vanity panel and bodywork cleared, you can see how the crash structure is:
Image

In order to make the crash structure legal, there is a kind of slot 50mm behind the tip of the structure in order to have the cross section define in article 15.4.3 legal:
Image

And here is a comparison between that nose, the snow plough nose and a conventional nose :
Image
Image
Image

By my understanding, the rule 3.7.8 prevent me to have a vanity panel in front of the nose because it is already 300mm high and is in front of the diagonal defined in article 3.7.8.

What do you think of that nose, Is that kind of nose legal?

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variante
138
Joined: 09 Apr 2012, 11:36
Location: Monza

Re: 2014 Design

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It's illegal, ringo. Just read the last page.

eyalynf1
eyalynf1
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Joined: 24 May 2011, 01:05

Re: 2014 Design

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ringo wrote:Yes you want air down to the floor, but it depends on how high you are taking that air from and how far back.
You do run a risk of creating some lift from the reaction force of that air being pushed down.
Also with the vanity panel in that design, there's probably 2 inches on each side, so i don't see it pushing much volume of air down even if we ignore any lift.

But this is all opinion, we wont know till it's tested.

Did a nose myself, just tried to keep things simple. Not saying it's a better design but i'm just sharing it on the board.
I'll investigate the middle finger or anteater or whatever you call it vanity panel later.

http://s1010.photobucket.com/user/ducka ... 7.png.html

went with a concave shape on the top of the nose. This is best for downforce creation. That hole at the top is to break the momentum change of that cancave shape as the air comes over the top of the monocoque.

http://s1010.photobucket.com/user/ducka ... 4.png.html

Decided to narrow the neck of the crash structure. This way i bring in air under the nose. It will naturally go there due to the shape without being forced by the vanity panel. Note the high pressure developed by the concave shape, i'll make it eliptical later. :lol:

http://s1010.photobucket.com/user/ducka ... 2.png.html
Side view, somewhat like the old school of thought in terms of how the looks came out. As i said, the concave shape on top is what gives the old shcool flavour, but it's really function over fashion.
Well that's it for me in terms of noses. Not the most exciting, but just went with a safe reasonable expectation.

The duckbill has a reason for being as it is. The regs have a location for the centroid of the shape. The make the bottom side of this shape as high as possble, we need to make it as close to that 185mm specified in the regs. Making the nose as wide as possible will mean that a shorter height will be required to meet the minimum area of 9000mm square. the nose tip is 250mm x 36mm here, and the base of the tip is 18mm away from the 185 mm centroid. This makes the tip as high as possible.
I'm actually evaluating a similar nose for my Khamsin car. My approach, however is to use a wider nose, with no narrowing, to increase the downforce generated by the nose. I would then trim back the angle of attack on the inner front wing elements to increase the energy of the flow through the front with area to the front of the floor.

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ringo
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Joined: 29 Mar 2009, 10:57

Re: 2014 Design

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variante wrote:It's illegal, ringo. Just read the last page.
What is illegal?
Oh i follow what you are saying.

But i can still find a way around that.
3.7.8 Only a single section, which must be open, may be contained within any longitudinal vertical cross section taken parallel to the car centre line forward of a point 150mm ahead of the front wheel centre line, less than 250mm from the car centre line and more than 125mm above the reference plane.
Any cameras or camera housings approved by the FIA in addition to a single inlet aperture for the purpose of driver cooling (such aperture having a maximum projected surface area of 1500mm2 and being situated forward of the section referred to in Article 15.4.3) will be exempt from the above.
Just have to push the front wheels forward a bit, and bring back the curvature, so that the only crossection is the one at the tip. But otherwise we can expect to see the boring looking noses.

I have one other novel idea though for the crash structure..
Last edited by ringo on 10 Jan 2014, 01:55, edited 1 time in total.
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eyalynf1
eyalynf1
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Joined: 24 May 2011, 01:05

Re: 2014 Design

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Variante is correct. Your narrowing creates two vertical sections when you get off center towards the outer edges of the nose.

shuberty
shuberty
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Joined: 10 Jan 2014, 02:59

Re: 2014 Design

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Image

gold333
gold333
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Joined: 16 May 2011, 02:59

Re: 2014 Design

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You know I wrote a whole thing back in 2012 about how F1 cars couldn't get uglier. That year on year they get uglier by a little amount but that a farce like the stepped nose was even too great for me to have expected.

Heck I even made my signature which I haven't changed since. I really thought we had hit rock bottom with the incompetence of the FIA as a regulatory body in 2012 with the stepped noses. It was the limit of uglyness.

The 2014 penis nose has redefined everything.

My thinking has now short circuited. We have officially entered the sanatorium.
F1 car width now 2.0m (same as 1993-1997). Lets go crazy and bring the 2.2m cars back (<1992).

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ringo
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Joined: 29 Mar 2009, 10:57

Re: 2014 Design

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Yes and whats funny is that i already noticed this earlier in the thread, but looks like i forgot after the new year. :|
Any how everything happens for a reason.. as trying to bypass the regs gave me a cool idea.

Suppose my vanity panel is actually a sharp edge delta wing ?
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eyalynf1
eyalynf1
6
Joined: 24 May 2011, 01:05

Re: 2014 Design

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ringo wrote:Yes and whats funny is that i already noticed this earlier in the thread, but looks like i forgot after the new year. :|
Any how everything happens for a reason.. as trying to bypass the regs gave me a cool idea.

Suppose my vanity panel is actually a sharp edge delta wing ?
Do you intend for the delta wings to shed vortices? If so, I would think the vanity panel would shed them rather too high to be useful to the floor or lower part of the sidepods. To get them down, you would need the deltas to have a relatively positive angle of attack, creating lift.

I have considered using chines along the sides of the lowest part of the crash structure nose as an alternative to using the tips of the front wing.

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KingHamilton01
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Joined: 08 Jun 2012, 17:12

Re: 2014 Design

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McLaren Mercedes

muelte
muelte
14
Joined: 03 Feb 2011, 10:34

Re: 2014 Design

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Looks like a 2012/2013 mercedes (stepped nose it seems) but nose seems lower. Probably a rendered image anyway