Mclaren MP4-30 Honda

[Jef Patat]

http://www.spreaker.com/user/f1_fans_up ... h-scarbsf1
Scarbs saying that Mclaren Honda car is year ahead in comparison what other teams are doing with chassis and engine.
From 28:45.

OR does he mean they are literally a year ahead of the others in development terms/ chassis integration/ engine architecture?

Well, too bad the season starts now and for the moment it looks like they are behind now. On the positive side, if they get things working in a couple of months it might sound good.

[Mesteño]

Well, it is obviously well shaped, but the important matter is how powerful is the PU it has in that tight package.

[Shakeman]

http://www.spreaker.com/user/f1_fans_up ... h-scarbsf1
Scarbs saying that Mclaren Honda car is year ahead in comparison what other teams are doing with chassis and engine.
From 28:45.

Who knows, maybe the extreme packaging has resulted in an extremely unreliable car. I was rather taken a back by Scarbs, who I have loads of respect for, lauding the package when the testing has been so dire.

I take the "year ahead" quote with a massive pinch of salt because the only thing that matters is the finishing position in this year and there are no prizes for packaging. If spy shots of the naked MP4-30 uncover any tricks to the packaging they'll likely be incorporated next year by other teams and the net gain for McLaren will be zilch.

As others have said, I think Honda have embarrassed themselves because they were the only engine manufacturer who were able to choose when to enter the new formula which was a massive advantage. They would appear to only have themselves to blame.

I'm glad I'm not a betting man as I would've bet on the McLaren Honda being competitive with Merc prior to the tests but after Boullier's comment it'll likely be another season write off.

[Shakeman]

Well, it is obviously well shaped, but the important matter is how powerful is the PU it has in that tight package.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B_Pn_LnWkAA0iMl.jpg

All things being equal, how much lap time is found in their packaging?

[Mesteño]

Well, it is obviously well shaped, but the important matter is how powerful is the PU it has in that tight package.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B_Pn_LnWkAA0iMl.jpg

All things being equal, how much lap time is found in their packaging?

Just for packaging I guess 0, but they have more room to work with that airflow, although reliability might be an issue. I hope they find the balance.

[George-Jung]

The words that pretty much sums up the main discussion over here "tight package"..

[Crabbia]

http://www.spreaker.com/user/f1_fans_up ... h-scarbsf1
Scarbs saying that Mclaren Honda car is year ahead in comparison what other teams are doing with chassis and engine.
From 28:45.

Who knows, maybe the extreme packaging has resulted in an extremely unreliable car. I was rather taken a back by Scarbs, who I have loads of respect for, lauding the package when the testing has been so dire.

I take the "year ahead" quote with a massive pinch of salt because the only thing that matters is the finishing position in this year and there are no prizes for packaging. If spy shots of the naked MP4-30 uncover any tricks to the packaging they'll likely be incorporated next year by other teams and the net gain for McLaren will be zilch.

I think scarbs point about the packaging was that if they get the packaging right this year then the other teams can and probably will copy, sure, thats to be expected in formula 1. But Honda's advantage will lie in not having to spend development tokens shifting around the basic architecture of the PU for packaging purposes. While the other teams will spend tokens on the layout of the PU and ancillaries, Honda can spend more of their allotted development tokens in 2016 on performance (and maybe reliability) related changes. Advantage Honda.

Also, for 2016 there will be many things in the PU the suppliers cannot change, and for this reason too, if the basic elements of the PU are packed better than the other three PU suppliers, they will have a 'locked in' advantage due to the PU development rules.

[kooleracer]

I honestly don't know how ScarbsF1 can make such a claim without even seeing the car run properly. Ferrari made the same sacrifice last year to gain aero dynamic performance. That backfired on them, we don't know how powerful the Honda PU is at the moment. If the PU is on par with Renault or Ferrari then they have done an incredible job. But if the engine is the least powerful they have made a really poor trade off. Because no amount of aero advantage is going to close a 60-80bhp gap. No one at moment can judge the McLaren car at the moment because it hasn't ran to its full potential yet.

Also I fully agree with Martin Brundle who said that every car that is under powered feel good its about pushing the package to the edge. And only then you can comment about its behavior. And the coke bottle of the McLaren is a bit deceiving, the beginning of side pods are quite chunky. A lot of hype is made about the "size zero" design. But the be fair Red Bull, Ferrari and Mercedes also have really slim design. So the Honda PU has to deliver because the difference in "slimness" isn't big enough the overcome a horsepower deficit.

[Richard]

Scarbs' point was that other teams wouldn't be able to mimic that degree of tight packaging until next year.

Obviously Mclaren have taken a gamble that it'll pay off, just like RB have done in previous years with failed KERS due to higher restricted packaging. If the gamble pays off then other teams will have to follow and that will require significant changes to the powertrain and cooling. Hence Mclaren will be a year ahead of them in development.

Meanwhile there are swings and roundabouts because Honda are a year behind on PU development.

[dren]

All things point in the right direction. A much improved aero design, lead by ex-Red Bull designer. A Honda PU that is packaged extremely well, and rumored to have the power the Mercedes had last year. Two top drivers. Once reliability is sorted, I expect the same that Scarbs is.

[kooleracer]

All things point in the right direction. A much improved aero design, lead by ex-Red Bull designer. A Honda PU that is packaged extremely well, and rumored to have the power the Mercedes had last year. Two top drivers. Once reliability is sorted, I expect the same that Scarbs is.

Both Renault and Ferrari have more bhp then the Merc 2014 PU. Looking at the times that is quite clear to see. So being on par with the Mercedes 2014 PU isn't enough. F1 is fast moving business last years numbers are obsolete. I hope for the sake of Honda and McLaren the their PU is at least on par with this years Renault PU otherwise this season will be a complete write off.

Packaging, aero performance and engine power are the 3 big performance differentiators. The perfect balance between the three is key to success. I'm hoping McLaren haven't sacrificed engine power (reliability) for the sake of the other two. I''m sure that Ferrari, Renault and Mercedes could slim down their engine package for better packaging. But both Renault and especially Ferrari have learned it the hard way last year, that engine power was a bigger factor in the performance of the car then the other two. That's why i'm a little hesitant about the MP4-30. Because during testing it had all the hallmarks of last years Red Bull.

[turbof1]

Meanwhile there are swings and roundabouts because Honda are a year behind on PU development.

Depends. I think they went very agressive with the PU, starting from something they'd expect would considerably malfunction but has enough power to rival Mercedes' 2015 PU. The reasoning would be that they'll later improve reliability. You could say they are one year behind in reliability.

Imo, they have a good packaging and a good amount of power. The reliability part is something they are allowedto update the PU for. Unused PU's, which means Mclaren will use more then 4 PU's, probably more then 5. We can expect that the first mgu-k will be wrecked in Melbourne anyhow.

We can also assume if they finally get rid of the current visible issues, they'll hit longer term-reliability issues. I fear Malaysia will be an eye opener too. However, they might get on top of all the issues at the end of the season. Once they got rid of their penalties, they'll be much closer to Mercedes.

[Richard]

However, they might get on top of all the issues at the end of the season.

Hence one year behind.

[bonjon1979]

So let me get this straight, they're a year ahead but still three seconds a lap behind...

[Richard]

So let me get this straight, they're a year ahead but still three seconds a lap behind...

Swings & roundabouts. In some areas they could be ahead, but in others they're behind. Net result (as you say) is several second off the pace.