2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

[mwillems]

not that it made a difference the way the race unfolded, but should the team have have tried the one-stopper in the end? The laps are so short, it's not a given that the race would get restarted after a late SC.

If you look at the difference in lap times in the graph posted above, one stop gap would be gone very quickly.

[AR3-GP]

The race pace gap was about 0.10-0.15s if you just take the data as is.

If you consider extraneous factors: Lando in his first stint used the new soft, whereas max used the used soft. And then Max didn't push with the new soft at the very end, choosing instead to go rather easy on the tyre, whereas Norris hammered his final soft stint

OTOH the middle stint max got drs on some backmarkers that Norris didn't have access to (as they may have boxed out of his way or Norris himself did) and Norris probably hurt his first set of soft tyres in the first 10 laps

https://i.imgur.com/b9v6E4d.png

Thanks, what is interesting is that Max is steadily pushing the car more and more at the end, so not really managing the gap in a way I'd expect to see but almost like he is testing the car or tires each lap. Whereas Lando puts in a belter and then drives to a delta.

You never know what people really have up their sleeve, but my gut is that over the race distance Max could have made a bigger gap if he'd wanted to, but was cautious as he knew he was faster and didn't want to do anything to risk the tyre in a stint. The final stint I don't fully understand they way he steadily increased his time. Or why he was happy to go progressively slower for the first three laps of the last stint.

After boxing for softs on lap 58, this was the radio for RB.

GP: 15 lap sprint to the end. Norris likely to 1 stop from here.
Max: How far is he ahead?
GP: His last lap was 15.7 you don't need to go too heavy on the tires for the first couple of laps
Max: How far is he ahead? (repeated)
GP: 12 seconds.

At this point Max doesn't really know the math and whether he is going to catch Norris or not. There's no more communication about the gap, rising or falling. Max is just on his own.

GP: Mode 5 please.
GP: Norris was a 15.8, gap is 9.7

*Ver silence*

GP: Max just make sure you do have the tires
GP: That last lap was 1.8 faster than Lando

*Ver silence*

GP: Blue flags for Sargeant ahead and Lando is in the pitlane
GP: So just watch the peaks (GP warning him to slow down for tire temps).

GP: Gap 11.3, Lando went for a purple lap 12.4, Gap 11.3
GP: and that's 10 laps remaining.

GP: Mode 6 please Max. Fuel corrected this is half a second slower than stint 1.

Max: Yeah I'm just chilling.
GP: Yep understood, Gap 10.6, Lando was a 13.8.

GP: 4 laps remaining. Gap 8.2. Lando 13.3
GP: 8.4. Lando 13.6
GP: 2 more laps.
GP: okay this is the final lap

Ver could have gone faster, much faster. Norris went flat out. Ver did not.

[trinidefender]

The race pace gap was about 0.10-0.15s if you just take the data as is.

If you consider extraneous factors: Lando in his first stint used the new soft, whereas max used the used soft. And then Max didn't push with the new soft at the very end, choosing instead to go rather easy on the tyre, whereas Norris hammered his final soft stint

OTOH the middle stint max got drs on some backmarkers that Norris didn't have access to (as they may have boxed out of his way or Norris himself did) and Norris probably hurt his first set of soft tyres in the first 10 laps

https://i.imgur.com/b9v6E4d.png

Thanks, what is interesting is that Max is steadily pushing the car more and more at the end, so not really managing the gap in a way I'd expect to see but almost like he is testing the car or tires each lap. Whereas Lando puts in a belter and then drives to a delta.

You never know what people really have up their sleeve, but my gut is that over the race distance Max could have made a bigger gap if he'd wanted to, but was cautious as he knew he was faster and didn't want to do anything to risk the tyre in a stint. The final stint I don't fully understand they way he steadily increased his time. Or why he was happy to go progressively slower for the first three laps of the last stint.

After Norris set his fastest lap Max was managing, however I would say Norris was also managing.

This race has been the first I've seen in a long time where any car had the pace to reel in Max and attempt and overtake even if it was only one then backing off. That speaks volumes for the McLaren's pace.

[mwillems]

It's all very interpretable isn't it. You do get the impression (Just chilling comment aside) that Max could have pushed the tyres more but chose not to - it would surprise me if he was not able to be close to Landos delta so it looks like a choice be quite steady in upping the pace, so it does feel like there is some time there. Lando was managing the tyres but looks like he was on the delta that would get him to the end of the race in the quickest time whereas Max was not doing that, but being more cautious.

To be honest I totally understand each point of view, but my own gut feeling is that we are close but Max had a bit more in the tank still, unfortunately, though I don't know if it was that much more, and I do think it is telling he didn't get the fastest lap, which I think he would have if he had so much more in the tank.

[AR3-GP]

and I do think it is telling he didn't get the fastest lap, which I think he would have if he had so much more in the tank.

What's telling is that Verstappen's fastest race lap was a 1.13.422 and Norris's fastest lap was a 1.12.486.

Mclaren is not 1 second faster than RB. If Verstappen had been within 2-3 tenths of the Norris time, then you can say maybe Verstappen pushed and the time wasn't there. But to be 1 second off suggest there was no fast lap attempt at all and listening to the radio, Verstappen never made a fast lap attempt. He never so much as asked what the fast lap was. He knows the team don't like taking risk towards the end (like he likes to do), and for once he just minded himself, and did not say a word on the radio after "yeah I'm just chilling".

So I don't think the fast laps lead to any conclusion other than no attempt from Verstappen. In any case, we do know that Mclaren had more 1 lap pace than RB here because they should have been on pole for both races. So while I don't think Verstappen may have been able to match Norris's time, it's not an indication of RB's real strength as they are still winning races quite comfortably while losing poles.

[mwillems]

and I do think it is telling he didn't get the fastest lap, which I think he would have if he had so much more in the tank.

What's telling is that Verstappen's fastest race lap was a 1.13.422 and Norris's fastest lap was a 1.12.486.

Mclaren is not 1 second faster than RB. If Verstappen had been within 2-3 tenths of the Norris time, then you can say maybe Verstappen pushed and the time wasn't there. But to be 1 second off suggest there was no fast lap attempt at all and listening to the radio, Verstappen never made a fast lap attempt. He never so much as asked what the fast lap was. He knows the team don't like taking risk towards the end (like he likes to do), and for once he just minded himself, and did not say a word on the radio after "yeah I'm just chilling".

So I don't think the fast laps are telling. Lando just went flat out without any regard for the tire while Verstappen likely was so comfortable that he was thinking of late race safety cars and having tire for a restart.

I certainly won't disagree that we aren't 1 second faster, I just think it looks like he felt it important to protect the tyres first and it prevented him going for a fastest lap, which he will sometimes do on the final laps.

But if you questioned me to demonstrate that he wasn't being very very cautious, I'd have no answer, which is why I think the data is very interpretable. As I said to FittingMechanics earlier, I'd be happier if we had one win against them so we can get more of a benchmark of what "close" looks like.

[AR3-GP]

and I do think it is telling he didn't get the fastest lap, which I think he would have if he had so much more in the tank.

What's telling is that Verstappen's fastest race lap was a 1.13.422 and Norris's fastest lap was a 1.12.486.

Mclaren is not 1 second faster than RB. If Verstappen had been within 2-3 tenths of the Norris time, then you can say maybe Verstappen pushed and the time wasn't there. But to be 1 second off suggest there was no fast lap attempt at all and listening to the radio, Verstappen never made a fast lap attempt. He never so much as asked what the fast lap was. He knows the team don't like taking risk towards the end (like he likes to do), and for once he just minded himself, and did not say a word on the radio after "yeah I'm just chilling".

So I don't think the fast laps are telling. Lando just went flat out without any regard for the tire while Verstappen likely was so comfortable that he was thinking of late race safety cars and having tire for a restart.

I certainly won't disagree that we aren't 1 second faster, I just think it looks like he felt it important to protect the tyres first and it prevented him going for a fastest lap, which he will sometimes do on the final laps.

But if you questioned me to demonstrate that he wasn't being very very cautious, I'd have no answer, which is why I think the data is very interpretable. As I said to FittingMechanics earlier, I'd be happier if we had one win against them so we can get more of a benchmark of what "close" looks like.

It's worth mentioning that Mclaren could have been on pole for both races. So with low fuel loads, Verstappen may not have been able to match the Norris fast lap in any case. We know from Friday/Sat that Mclaren was quite strong on low fuel with soft tires.

[mwillems]

What's telling is that Verstappen's fastest race lap was a 1.13.422 and Norris's fastest lap was a 1.12.486.

Mclaren is not 1 second faster than RB. If Verstappen had been within 2-3 tenths of the Norris time, then you can say maybe Verstappen pushed and the time wasn't there. But to be 1 second off suggest there was no fast lap attempt at all and listening to the radio, Verstappen never made a fast lap attempt. He never so much as asked what the fast lap was. He knows the team don't like taking risk towards the end (like he likes to do), and for once he just minded himself, and did not say a word on the radio after "yeah I'm just chilling".

So I don't think the fast laps are telling. Lando just went flat out without any regard for the tire while Verstappen likely was so comfortable that he was thinking of late race safety cars and having tire for a restart.

I certainly won't disagree that we aren't 1 second faster, I just think it looks like he felt it important to protect the tyres first and it prevented him going for a fastest lap, which he will sometimes do on the final laps.

But if you questioned me to demonstrate that he wasn't being very very cautious, I'd have no answer, which is why I think the data is very interpretable. As I said to FittingMechanics earlier, I'd be happier if we had one win against them so we can get more of a benchmark of what "close" looks like.

It's worth mentioning that Mclaren could have been on pole for both races. So with low fuel loads, Verstappen may not have been able to match the Norris fast lap in any case. We know from Friday/Sat that Mclaren was quite strong on low fuel with soft tires.

Yeah that's a good point in terms of final stint pace, which we seem to be focussing on. I do think that earlier in the race Max did have time in hand, that I'm more comfortable with, but that last stint was certainly interesting. Was that what "close" looks like.

[mwillems]

What's telling is that Verstappen's fastest race lap was a 1.13.422 and Norris's fastest lap was a 1.12.486.

Mclaren is not 1 second faster than RB. If Verstappen had been within 2-3 tenths of the Norris time, then you can say maybe Verstappen pushed and the time wasn't there. But to be 1 second off suggest there was no fast lap attempt at all and listening to the radio, Verstappen never made a fast lap attempt. He never so much as asked what the fast lap was. He knows the team don't like taking risk towards the end (like he likes to do), and for once he just minded himself, and did not say a word on the radio after "yeah I'm just chilling".

So I don't think the fast laps are telling. Lando just went flat out without any regard for the tire while Verstappen likely was so comfortable that he was thinking of late race safety cars and having tire for a restart.

I certainly won't disagree that we aren't 1 second faster, I just think it looks like he felt it important to protect the tyres first and it prevented him going for a fastest lap, which he will sometimes do on the final laps.

But if you questioned me to demonstrate that he wasn't being very very cautious, I'd have no answer, which is why I think the data is very interpretable. As I said to FittingMechanics earlier, I'd be happier if we had one win against them so we can get more of a benchmark of what "close" looks like.

It's worth mentioning that Mclaren could have been on pole for both races. So with low fuel loads, Verstappen may not have been able to match the Norris fast lap in any case. We know from Friday/Sat that Mclaren was quite strong on low fuel with soft tires.

One more for the mix, Max was on new softs and Lando on softs a few laps old.

[organic]

Interested to see if the team bothered to cook up a low DF wing for Vegas.

[McL-H]

Interested to see if the team bothered to cook up a low DF wing for Vegas.

It would be odd to do so for just 1 GP at the end of the season after not bothering to do so at Monza. On the other hand, if it can be carried over to next year, why not.

[mwillems]

Interested to see if the team bothered to cook up a low DF wing for Vegas.

We had one at Monza, flat as a pancake. But do you think it is a low DF track??

[organic]

Interested to see if the team bothered to cook up a low DF wing for Vegas.

We had one at Monza, flat as a pancake.

https://twitter.com/TheMcLarenZone/stat ... 3913261370

Oh right.. I thought they didn't have time to build a low DF wing for Monza but I must've been thinking about Spa. Well I know Monza wasn't brilliant but the Singapore upgrade seems to have made them competitive everywhere. RB don't have a dedicated Monza/Vegas wing unlike Ferrari/McLaren so could be an opportunity

[mwillems]

Interested to see if the team bothered to cook up a low DF wing for Vegas.

We had one at Monza, flat as a pancake.

Isn't that the 2022 wing?

Nah I remember all the talk of them bringing the wing to Monza.

[organic]

We had one at Monza, flat as a pancake.
https://twitter.com/TheMcLarenZone/sta ... 3913261370

Isn't that the 2022 wing?

Nah I remember all the talk of them bringing the wing to Monza.

Yes apologies, Remembered and edited