McLaren MP4-31 Honda

[Jef Patat]

Monaco was difficult because they couldn't get the tires to work. Although chassis related it is not the same, even more difficult to include aero in that. To conclude Honda engine is 'ok' (whatever that might mean) is quite a bold statement. On a track that doesn't suit MCL at all P11 is very nice.

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/tyres ... so-742543/

[CjC]

At Baku,it appears to me, that RBR are runing similiar rear wing DF to what McLaren run at high DF tracks(but much less than what RBR would run at those tracks). Just shows how comprimised we are.

if you have read what jenson said in baku the new low configuration rear wings was only used in Baku, and the rear wing in canada was high DF, not only that mclaren were running monkey wings when both redbull andTR did not in canada. the reason behind this was mclaren thought canada will rain but it didnt , very unlucky for them luckily in baku they eventually ran the low DF wing. mclaren chassis is very inferior to redbull, it was very clear in monaco, this is a circuit where BHP have very little influence, just look at williams , redbull always perform well here even when their engine lack a huge defecit in 2014. its a chassis circuit, good efficient aero counts alot, mclaren struggle for pace, very lucky it rain, top team crash out , fantastic pitstop by mclaren when other fumbled, jenson said it best if it was dry race no point would be got in monaco.honda engine is ok. the biggest defecit is the aero/chassis.just like works renault compared to redbull, huge difference in chassis performance

In regard to the Hinda being ok, unfortunately Hasegawa said the straight line speed was OK in Baku down to the low downforce rear wing.

[Jef Patat]

correct, and before anyone starts nagging about a source:

http://www.mclaren.com/formula1/2016/eu ... ce-report/
"Though we were fearful of the long straights pre-race, we remained in the hunt thanks to the low downforce rear wing setting we adopted for this weekend."

Now let's wait for Wazari to confirm

[techman]

In regard to the Hinda being ok, unfortunately Hasegawa said the straight line speed was OK in Baku down to the low downforce rear wing.

well all teams were running low wing. just look at them and compare, mercedes had its own version, every team ran low wing because of those long straights, its not a suprise, i wont be suprise if all team bring their low wing to austria. infact the mclaren wing looks a bit more steeper than either of TR and redbull.

[techman]

chassis performance is key to good laptime, just look at works renault and redbull, big difference, unfortunately for honda mclaren are blocking them for supplying other teams, so there is not benchmark chassis to run it. shame. we all know how bad the pace was in monaco a chassis circuit, that mclaren aero/chassis need to improve a lot for this car to improve and compete with the top.

[mrluke]

Can anybody pull up some comparison pics of Mclaren rear wing vs others? Nobody can assess drag by eye but I don't think they are anywhere near as skinny as rbr ran last couple of seasons.

[ollandos]

the car needs a lot of work ....good news and bad news is
good news ....
mclaren aero and donwforce ...
honda reliability....(better from last year )
little better tires managment and performnce (from the start of the season)
brakes performance..(maybe the best )

bad news
no good enough on tires .....
no good enough on ERS ...
no good enough on fuel efficiency
no good enough on ice power ..
no good enough mechanical chassis

simply the car is no good enough ...in all areas ....but closer to the top in few areas...

its not only one side (mclaren or honda) problem .......

the question is...what can they do ....in this season and when?....and what on winter.....for top starting point for next season .....
with no tokens system honda can build mercedes level engine ? right now...?...and mclaren can build mercedes level chassis .....right now.....

2017 new rules i think makes the differents on engines even bigger........and we see more engine formula 1 ....and less all others.....this huge tires needs power to move on .......with a lot of more donwforce .......

[mrluke]

Mclaren honda super low downforce rear wing:



Looks pretty similar to the Torro Ross to me. Infact I would say the front element is deeper than the TR giving an overall deeper wing.

There's definitely scope to make it skinnier:



Mclaren need to take ownership for their lap times rather than keep blaming Honda, they are a team and should be winning and losing together. Correct me if I am wrong but usually the teams design their own gearboxes not Honda? And at Canada it was the driveshaft at fault.

I am sure that Mclaren had to run a low downforce setup, but they werent the only ones. I am also sure they had to manage fuel saving but again even Rosberg nearly ran out at Montreal.

I feel sorry for Perez who suffered a massive dent to his career after being made a scape goat by mclaren for a poor car.

[domh245]

There's definitely scope to make it skinnier:

Perhaps the best example of a skinny rear wing is the mp4-30!

[diffuser]

Mclaren honda super low downforce rear wing:

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/wp-content/u ... _HiRes.jpg

Looks pretty similar to the Torro Ross to me. Infact I would say the front element is deeper than the TR giving an overall deeper wing.

There's definitely scope to make it skinnier:

https://www.formula1.com/content/fom-we ... medium.jpg

Mclaren need to take ownership for their lap times rather than keep blaming Honda, they are a team and should be winning and losing together. Correct me if I am wrong but usually the teams design their own gearboxes not Honda? And at Canada it was the driveshaft at fault.

I am sure that Mclaren had to run a low downforce setup, but they werent the only ones. I am also sure they had to manage fuel saving but again even Rosberg nearly ran out at Montreal.

I feel sorry for Perez who suffered a massive dent to his career after being made a scape goat by mclaren for a poor car.

- I wouldn't feel sorry for Perez , he's a multi-millionaire.
- He made the choice to replace Hamilton(Tough to do, very good and British on a British team).
- He thought he was as good as Hamilton but he wasn't.
- The expectation was LH type numbers and he failed.
- He's gotten better but I still wouldn't choose him over LH or FA.
- He put fewer points on the table than Button.
- Button one of best ever number 2s.
- He wasn't RD's or EB's Choice .
- At the time He was probably equal to KM.
- Even if they would have kept him in 2014, Honda wanted FA for 2015 so he would have gotten the boot. So I'm not sure why we're still talking about this.

"Mclaren need to take ownership for their lap times rather than keep blaming Honda, they are a team and should be winning and losing together. Correct me if I am wrong but usually the teams design their own gearboxes not Honda? And at Canada it was the driveshaft at fault. "

I think they do. They usually say they need to get faster on both ends. I don't see your point. I think when pressed by media for detail of their issues the PU issues come up. Otherwise they say they need to get faster.


I've said this before but I'll say it again. Normally McLaren Runs a LD setup (even in HD tracks). I mean their HD setup is low downforce compared to RDR (just look at the rear wings). In Baku, the more wing you take off for the long straight, has a huge effect on the slow section (slow section is long). It also makes it harder to keep temp in the tires and increases tire ware. So basically lack of power is a uphill battle.

[Andres125sx]

Mclaren honda super low downforce rear wing:

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/wp-content/u ... _HiRes.jpg

Looks pretty similar to the Torro Ross to me. Infact I would say the front element is deeper than the TR giving an overall deeper wing.

There's definitely scope to make it skinnier:

https://www.formula1.com/content/fom-we ... medium.jpg

Mclaren need to take ownership for their lap times rather than keep blaming Honda, they are a team and should be winning and losing together. Correct me if I am wrong but usually the teams design their own gearboxes not Honda? And at Canada it was the driveshaft at fault.

I am sure that Mclaren had to run a low downforce setup, but they werent the only ones. I am also sure they had to manage fuel saving but again even Rosberg nearly ran out at Montreal.

I feel sorry for Perez who suffered a massive dent to his career after being made a scape goat by mclaren for a poor car.

Does that really matter when they were the slowest team on S3?

Sincerely, to me this GP has proven how far is Honda from the rest.


Shouldn´t be a surprise since they couldn´t change all they want in the PU due to the tokens, and reliability was a much more important aspect to improve, what they actually managed to do, but it´s still painfull to see what the real difference is

[mrluke]

Does that really matter when they were the slowest team on S3?

Sincerely, to me this GP has proven how far is Honda from the rest.


Shouldn´t be a surprise since they couldn´t change all they want in the PU due to the tokens, and reliability was a much more important aspect to improve, what they actually managed to do, but it´s still painfull to see what the real difference is

http://www.f1technical.net/forum/viewto ... 15#p642920

If you are entering the longest straight in F1 at least 10kmh slower than everybody else you would expect to have a pretty slow sector.

[PhillipM]

That comparison is rather flawed when it takes the top speeds at face value and neglects to mention Button had a tow from a car ~1s in front of him at the time and Alonso had a tow from a car ~3s in front of him...

[mclaren111]

Speedcafe.com:
A low downforce set-up was to blame for Red Bull’s tyre life issues at the European Grand Prix, according to team boss Christian Horner.

It's all about finding the right balance. Even RBR went the wrong way here

[Thunder]

Front and Read win differences to the Canada Race:

Pictures by AMuS



And a Picture of the Rear Brake ducts. Crazy Aero stuff....