Red Bull RB7 Renault

[aral]

I read somewhere about a revised diffuser on the RB7 of Vettel's car when he crashed it in Turkey .. I couldn't find pics though, and they reverted BOTH cars to the previous config for the weekend.

Seems we should expect a revised diffuser at the next venue.

According to AMuS the whole car is acting as a diffuser!

I wonder if the exhaust is angled in such a way as to virtually extend the height of the diffuser downwards and with the high rear ride height and rake it creates a huge single diffuser?

One part that was not able to be used on Vetels car, after the crash, was " a new exhaust system".

[CHT]

And is also a reason why Red Bull are happy with the more frugal nature of the Renault V8.

this is probably the main reason why Ferrari and Mclaren are having problem trying catch RB7. RBR has simply turn the "underpowered" but frugal renault engine into their advantage.

And with engine freeze running into 2012, I am afraid that RB8 could carry that advantage into 2012 unless FIA tweak the aero rules.

[Just_a_fan]

I wonder much effect their diffuser makes when it´s so high up, maybe i´m wrong but isn´t a diffuser more effective the closer you run it to the ground?

I think you're wrong but only because it's not as simple as that.

The diffuser itself is probably not height limited (indeed, the higher the diffuser the better so long as you can keep the flow attached inside because that gives a better expansion ratio) but the floor as a whole is (generally, running the floor closer to the ground is better). But if you design the whole floor as a diffuser with the 'official' diffuser then acting on that, you have a different animal to the traditional "floor close to the ground with a diffuser behind it" system.

I think the use of the exhaust, to blow the edge of the diffuser, helps to make the diffuser think its sides go closer to the ground then actually do. This will make it more effective (but probably not as effective as having the sides actually going closer to the ground if you see what I mean).

I guess that the use of (what might historically have been considered) excessive rake only works because of the extreme undercut / extended lateral floorplate that the current designs have. This effectively acts as a very large lateral skirt helping to reduce airflow under the car from the sides. Southgate used a small version of this on his Group C Jaguar and it made the underside much more effective. Perhaps the effectiveness of this is also aided by the outflow front wing endplates now used by the teams but I don't know how.

[HampusA]

I wonder much effect their diffuser makes when it´s so high up, maybe i´m wrong but isn´t a diffuser more effective the closer you run it to the ground?

I think you're wrong but only because it's not as simple as that.

The diffuser itself is probably not height limited (indeed, the higher the diffuser the better so long as you can keep the flow attached inside because that gives a better expansion ratio) but the floor as a whole is (generally, running the floor closer to the ground is better). But if you design the whole floor as a diffuser with the 'official' diffuser then acting on that, you have a different animal to the traditional "floor close to the ground with a diffuser behind it" system.

I think the use of the exhaust, to blow the edge of the diffuser, helps to make the diffuser think its sides go closer to the ground then actually do. This will make it more effective (but probably not as effective as having the sides actually going closer to the ground if you see what I mean).

I guess that the use of (what might historically have been considered) excessive rake only works because of the extreme undercut / extended lateral floorplate that the current designs have. This effectively acts as a very large lateral skirt helping to reduce airflow under the car from the sides. Southgate used a small version of this on his Group C Jaguar and it made the underside much more effective. Perhaps the effectiveness of this is also aided by the outflow front wing endplates now used by the teams but I don't know how.

i see thanks, good read.

Do you think the car do level out some as the speed increases or do you think the rake is more or less fixed?

[Steven]

I have again moved a lot of posts out of here.

So, for Vettel versus Webber or anyone else:
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=10033

For flexing wings:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=9629

This thread here is for Red Bull RB7, the car and its technical developments. Nothing else.

[AbbaleRacing77]

I think by blowing the sides of the diffuser combined with super high rake they are in effect creating an artificially huge diffuser...

[rfs]

So how many tenths might the bulls lose with this new engine map rule? They've only used it in qualifying, so without that extra rear downforce they won't be able to use their DRS as often anymore.

[sink]

So how many tenths might the bulls lose with this new engine map rule? They've only used it in qualifying, so without that extra rear downforce they won't be able to use their DRS as often anymore.

Afaik they wont loose any rear downforce on throttle. It's the exhaust off throttle FIA want to regulate.

[Byronrhys]

Effectively we should see them and other cars braking earlier and even maybe revert to the exhaust arrangement on the RB6?

[mith]

So how many tenths might the bulls lose with this new engine map rule? They've only used it in qualifying, so without that extra rear downforce they won't be able to use their DRS as often anymore.

Sorry, but it's first time I heard about that rule. Could you please PM me some link to news or articles about it?

[TheWiseOwl]

So how many tenths might the bulls lose with this new engine map rule? They've only used it in qualifying, so without that extra rear downforce they won't be able to use their DRS as often anymore.

Sorry, but it's first time I heard about that rule. Could you please PM me some link to news or articles about it?

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/91475

'Formula 1's competitive order at the front of the field could be thrown on its head in this weekend's Spanish Grand Prix with the FIA having made a major change to the exhaust blown diffuser regulations, AUTOSPORT has learned.

With the design and execution of blown diffusers being viewed as a key area of the 2011 development race, teams have been pushing hard with their concepts to try and eek out any competitive advantage they can.

One aspect that has been worked on a lot is in ensuring that a flow of exhaust gases keep pumping through the diffuser, to help increase downforce, even when the throttle is not in use.

But now, on the back of some teams expending huge effort in tweaking engine modes to help gain performance in this area, the FIA has acted and decided to clamp down on what they are up to.

High level sources have revealed that the FIA has written to teams informing them that from this weekend's Spanish Grand Prix they will no longer be allowed to continue flowing gases through the engine when the driver is not on the throttle.

It is understood the directive to the teams tells them that, under braking, the throttle input can now be no larger than 10 per cent of its maximum. Some outfits had been gaining aerodynamic benefit from keeping the throttle flow at 100 per cent under braking.

To push this regulation change through, the FIA has deemed that throttle use will be allowed only for the purpose of increasing torque, not for 'aerodynamic performance'.

This effectively means that any team found to be using off-throttle blown diffusers could be in breach of the famous Article 3.15 of the technical regulations that outlaws moveable aerodynamic devices.

The change in regulations is set to hurt every team running a blown diffuser - although some may be hurt more than others.

Mercedes GP team principal Ross Brawn said: "It will affect all the teams. These staccato exhausts you hear, I don't think you are going to hear them anymore.

"The teams have all been developing their engine management systems to get the maximum advantage from the exhausts, and the FIA want to push us in a different direction now so there will be changes there.

"I've no idea what will be the outcome there, but it has forced all the teams to have a fresh look at what they are doing in terms of engine strategies."

However, with McLaren having recently hinted that it viewed off-throttle engine maps as a key to Red Bull Racing's qualifying form, the change in regulations could mean the reigning world champion team is one of the worst hit.

Speaking to AUTOSPORT about the impact of the change in rules, Red Bull Racing team principal Christian Horner said: "I think that it is going to have an effect with all teams that have been utilising it.

"That appears to be 90 per cent of the grid, if you look at how many teams are running blown diffusers. It is not something unique to this year, it is something that started last year, so Barcelona will clearly show what effect this will have."

When asked if he thought the rules change had come about as the result of a complaint from a rival team to try and slow Red Bull Racing down, Horner said: "It is inevitable and the unfortunate consequence of success."'

[Ferraripilot]

Red Bull, Ferrari, Williams (sort of), Mclaren are all going to have to rethink their systems

[dren]

This is mainly in braking, they still get the added bennefit of the exhaust blowing when on throttle, which is when they will need it more. It just upsets the balance when going off throttle.

If the balance is really such an issue, maybe KERS can be run to supplement rather than throttle input? Not sure how that stacks up to the rules.

[rfs]

If the balance is really such an issue, maybe KERS can be run to supplement rather than throttle input? Not sure how that stacks up to the rules.

But KERS doesn't produce gas for the exhaust.

[Rob01]

Braking and in corners is where they want the EBD to work the most. It produces the extra downforce to run the corner quicker. It's how Red Bull has led in all sector times. The corners.