2024 Mclaren Formula 1 Team

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SilviuAgo
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Joined: 15 Aug 2020, 16:08

Re: 2024 Mclaren Formula 1 Team

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CjC wrote:
20 Sep 2024, 17:45
Sorry to bring the mini drs back up but this is a very balanced article

https://www.the-race.com/formula-1/mcla ... -own-game/
So well pointed. A clever development made by McLaren, like RB, Mercedes or Ferrari did in the past. This is Formula 1 and should remain the pinnacle of motorsport together with his inventions (DAS, double diffuser, flexi wings, using oil for engine power, increasing fuel pressure, F-duct etc etc).
As Oscar said, where McLaren is now is not due a silver bullet. They invested more than 5 years, since Zak arrived at a team finishing P9 in constructor championship during second Honda period.

And a picture that makes me smile :)


CjC
CjC
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Joined: 03 Jul 2012, 20:13

Re: 2024 Mclaren Formula 1 Team

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SilviuAgo wrote:
20 Sep 2024, 17:55
CjC wrote:
20 Sep 2024, 17:45
Sorry to bring the mini drs back up but this is a very balanced article

https://www.the-race.com/formula-1/mcla ... -own-game/
So well pointed. A clever development made by McLaren, like RB, Mercedes or Ferrari did in the past. This is Formula 1 and should remain the pinnacle of motorsport together with his inventions (DAS, double diffuser, flexi wings, using oil for engine power, increasing fuel pressure, F-duct etc etc).
As Oscar said, where McLaren is now is not due a silver bullet. They invested more than 5 years, since Zak arrived at a team finishing P9 in constructor championship during second Honda period.

And a picture that makes me smile :)

I didn’t know Oscar said that, so they aren’t too concerned about it then.

This in particular will be a tough pill to swallow for the social media kids:

‘McLaren’s Rob Marshall made it clear that it worked with the FIA to establish the legality of its rear wing – and that includes access to designs. That, combined with passing the load tests means that the wing therefore was indeed absolutely legal until it wasn’t.’

Also would seem to me that as soon as the drawing left the design office to go into manufacturing the wing was effectively obsolete, they’ll have another wing development in the works already.
Just a fan's point of view

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SilviuAgo
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Joined: 15 Aug 2020, 16:08

Re: 2024 Mclaren Formula 1 Team

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CjC wrote:
20 Sep 2024, 20:08
SilviuAgo wrote:
20 Sep 2024, 17:55
CjC wrote:
20 Sep 2024, 17:45
Sorry to bring the mini drs back up but this is a very balanced article

https://www.the-race.com/formula-1/mcla ... -own-game/
So well pointed. A clever development made by McLaren, like RB, Mercedes or Ferrari did in the past. This is Formula 1 and should remain the pinnacle of motorsport together with his inventions (DAS, double diffuser, flexi wings, using oil for engine power, increasing fuel pressure, F-duct etc etc).
As Oscar said, where McLaren is now is not due a silver bullet. They invested more than 5 years, since Zak arrived at a team finishing P9 in constructor championship during second Honda period.

And a picture that makes me smile :)

I didn’t know Oscar said that, so they aren’t too concerned about it then.

This in particular will be a tough pill to swallow for the social media kids:

‘McLaren’s Rob Marshall made it clear that it worked with the FIA to establish the legality of its rear wing – and that includes access to designs. That, combined with passing the load tests means that the wing therefore was indeed absolutely legal until it wasn’t.’

Also would seem to me that as soon as the drawing left the design office to go into manufacturing the wing was effectively obsolete, they’ll have another wing development in the works already.
Some details here : https://racingnews365.com/piastri-dismi ... ing-theory

And I consider interesting also what this article points, and what also Oscar mentioned in his interview, that was not fully aware about a competitive advantage in this RW low downforce geometry:
https://www.the-race.com/formula-1/mark ... struggles/

"The regulations stipulate that the minimum slot gap is 10mm with the DRS closed and a maximum of 85mm when the DRS is open.

Let's say that the drag from minimum to maximum slot gap opening, which is 75mm x 490mm each side (giving a total opening of 73,500sq/mm), equates to 15mph or 24km/h speed advantage increase.

The extra opening we see on the McLaren due to deflection I would estimate at 10mm deep at the outer end tapering to nothing going inward for roughly 200mm.

That equates to an open area of 1000sq/mm each side, which equates to a total opening of 2000sq/mm when the DRS is closed. That's roughly 2.7% of the potential of the DRS opening, so equates to a speed advantage of possibly 0.4mph or 0.65km/h.

Balancing out the risk versus reward, this hardly seems worth it.

Other teams might need to be careful of what they complain to the FIA about, because it might just mean that it has highlighted to McLaren something it might not have actually known about itself."

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Darth-Piekus
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Re: 2024 Mclaren Formula 1 Team

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Can someone explain it to me. Mclaren's Rear Wing has passed every test so the FIA deemed it legal but Mclaren is making changes. Why?

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Paa
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Joined: 26 Aug 2022, 13:43

Re: 2024 Mclaren Formula 1 Team

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Darth-Piekus wrote:
21 Sep 2024, 00:20
Can someone explain it to me. Mclaren's Rear Wing has passed every test so the FIA deemed it legal but Mclaren is making changes. Why?
As I understand Red Bull protested to FIA, then they started talks with McLaren and then McLaren pre-emptively offered to abandon this trick.
The only logical explanation to me is that this mini DRS thing had marginal effect, but there might be some other trickery going on with bigger effect. McLaren didn't want big attention to that area or risk that some new measurements would be introduced getting the other thing impossible as well. So they wanted to cut short the discussion/investigation.

edit: their sacrifice is marginal anyway as they would have only used this wing in Las Vegas maybe for like 1 tenths gain.
They already had their fun in Monza/Baku so honestly they lost almost nothing with abandoning the concept.

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BMMR61
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Joined: 25 May 2021, 13:02
Location: Australia.

Re: 2024 Mclaren Formula 1 Team

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Darth-Piekus wrote:
21 Sep 2024, 00:20
Can someone explain it to me. Mclaren's Rear Wing has passed every test so the FIA deemed it legal but Mclaren is making changes. Why?
This sort of thing goes on. I remember the Brabham "fan car" that used a fan to "cool the engine" - nothing to do with sucking the car to the road! It won it's first race and after a mutual discussion with CSI (forerunner to the FIA) it was voluntarily withdrawn by Ecclestone (then Brabham owner). The rules couldn't at the time disqualify it but it was deemed not desirable for a few obvious reasons.

It's called a loophole. Anyone who says McLaren are cheating over this (other than the teams who want it banned) are completely unaware of how F1 operates in the sphere of "unfair advantage". The late, great Mark Donohue coined this phrase. It's a team's prerogative to look for grey areas that don't specifically outlaw something that gives an advantage. If you don't try to do it you're not on the cutting edge. This wing trick was always going to get discovered quite early, unlike some things which (for example) Red Bull have exploited for many races at different times.

Dunlay
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Joined: 10 Mar 2024, 15:23

Re: 2024 Mclaren Formula 1 Team

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Darth-Piekus wrote:
21 Sep 2024, 00:20
Can someone explain it to me. Mclaren's Rear Wing has passed every test so the FIA deemed it legal but Mclaren is making changes. Why?
They are not the first ones to be in this situation. Red Bull has a history of bendy wings that passed the tests, but were asked to change their wings to avoid unnecessary bending. Once the FIA knows what's happening, it's easy to bring in some additional tests to stop it. Other teams help in that regard.

That McLaren trick was against the spirit of the regulations, even if it passed the current tests.

https://www.the-race.com/formula-1/why- ... ist-in-f1/
Article 3.2 of the technical regulations codifies aspects of this. Article 3.2.2 includes a version of the primary purpose rule that reads “the aerodynamic influence of any component of the car not considered to be bodywork must be incidental to its main function. Any design which aims to maximise such an aerodynamic influence is prohibited”.

FittingMechanics
FittingMechanics
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Re: 2024 Mclaren Formula 1 Team

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McLaren offering to change is simple
They want better optics on this.

Offering to change without beimg forced or banned is better for PR. They know that FIA would ban it so why not offer to change.

It is not used often (only one potential race till the end of season)

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mwillems
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Re: 2024 Mclaren Formula 1 Team

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dialtone wrote:
20 Sep 2024, 17:06
mwillems wrote:The telemetry is interesting. Looks like Lando might have left time at the penultimate corner.

The Ferrari on the other hand doesn't ever seem to fully release the throttle, it is being feathered through every corner.

Cars look very close at this point, it is fine margins.
How I would read it is that Lando takes 16-17 where the car had much stronger entry, rests on the inside kerb, and accelerates from higher min speed out of it.

While LEC has to handle it more gently.

It will be close for sure.
Apparently a tricky correction from Norris at T17. Even so it will be tight margins.

https://www.planetf1.com/news/singapore ... 4-practice
I'm not taking advice from a cartoon dog

-Bandit

Emag
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Re: 2024 Mclaren Formula 1 Team

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mwillems wrote:
21 Sep 2024, 08:18
dialtone wrote:
20 Sep 2024, 17:06
mwillems wrote:The telemetry is interesting. Looks like Lando might have left time at the penultimate corner.

The Ferrari on the other hand doesn't ever seem to fully release the throttle, it is being feathered through every corner.

Cars look very close at this point, it is fine margins.
How I would read it is that Lando takes 16-17 where the car had much stronger entry, rests on the inside kerb, and accelerates from higher min speed out of it.

While LEC has to handle it more gently.

It will be close for sure.
Apparently a tricky correction from Norris at T17. Even so it will be tight margins.

https://www.planetf1.com/news/singapore ... 4-practice
Yes I think I made a comment about it yesterday. He is purposefully sacrificing some of the exit for the much better entry, but he had a moment on his lap with the softs and the speed drop was bigger than his earlier lap with the hards.

Probably lost 0.05-0.1s, nothing crazy though.

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SilviuAgo
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Joined: 15 Aug 2020, 16:08

Re: 2024 Mclaren Formula 1 Team

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Reading some articles regarding Mercedes and RB struggle from the last races, a question raised on one comment and I want to discuss it also with you.
Is clear that RB has a major issue riding kerbs, and that was probably the main reason that last year they didn't won all the races . And the "guilty" part of the car was indicated to be the suspension. And now comes the question saw on https://www.the-race.com/formula-1/max- ... baijan-gp/ : "Who designed the horrible Red Bull suspension?"
It wasn't Rob Marshall the RB expert on suspensions? And if so, did he had some involvement in RB design for "23 and '24 or he already was out due to McLaren switch (in January '24)?
I am putting this question because McLaren, together with Ferrari, seems to have the best suspensions, and is strange RB to struggle so badly for this.

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chrisc90
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Joined: 23 Feb 2022, 21:22

Re: 2024 Mclaren Formula 1 Team

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Nobody will go out their way to ‘offer’ to change a part on a car that they are certain complies to all regulation. Only way you would ‘offer to change’ it is you know it’s a grey area and you’ve been found out, or the FIA had had a chat with you and said we going to ban this with a technical directive/ or goes against one already in place.
Mess with the Bull - you get the horns.

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mwillems
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Joined: 04 Sep 2016, 22:11

Re: 2024 Mclaren Formula 1 Team

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Emag wrote:
21 Sep 2024, 09:44
mwillems wrote:
21 Sep 2024, 08:18
dialtone wrote:
20 Sep 2024, 17:06

How I would read it is that Lando takes 16-17 where the car had much stronger entry, rests on the inside kerb, and accelerates from higher min speed out of it.

While LEC has to handle it more gently.

It will be close for sure.
Apparently a tricky correction from Norris at T17. Even so it will be tight margins.

https://www.planetf1.com/news/singapore ... 4-practice
Yes I think I made a comment about it yesterday. He is purposefully sacrificing some of the exit for the much better entry, but he had a moment on his lap with the softs and the speed drop was bigger than his earlier lap with the hards.

Probably lost 0.05-0.1s, nothing crazy though.
Yeah I saw you agreeing with me initially, but wanted to post that analysis too since it aligned with my brief report on the telemetry.

I'm looking forward to the Q telemetry, I've not noticed drivers feathering the throttle at every braking zone before. What's that about?
I'm not taking advice from a cartoon dog

-Bandit

stewie325
stewie325
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Joined: 18 Nov 2007, 19:18

Re: 2024 Mclaren Formula 1 Team

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chrisc90 wrote:
21 Sep 2024, 10:30
Nobody will go out their way to ‘offer’ to change a part on a car that they are certain complies to all regulation. Only way you would ‘offer to change’ it is you know it’s a grey area and you’ve been found out, or the FIA had had a chat with you and said we going to ban this with a technical directive/ or goes against one already in place.
McLaren are happy to do it because they've already reaped the rewards in past few races, and the upcoming tracks won't really benefit from this trick (Vegas aside).

Doing it "willingly" avoids bad press, and makes the FIA and Red Bull look like the "bad guys" with an agenda towards McLaren.

You should read the comments in the BBC News article - this approach seems to have done the trick on the general public perception!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/ar ... o#comments

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SilviuAgo
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Re: 2024 Mclaren Formula 1 Team

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We have to see today if rain can change the order in a major aspect.
Last edited by SilviuAgo on 21 Sep 2024, 10:49, edited 1 time in total.