Red Bull RB7 Renault

[Ferraripilot]

Braking and in corners is where they want the EBD to work the most. It produces the extra downforce to run the corner quicker. It's how Red Bull has led in all sector times. The corners.

+1 exactly, RB7 carries huge speed into, during, and out of the corners. They are by far the earliest back on the throttle out of the hole.

[Italiano Tifoso]

Braking and in corners is where they want the EBD to work the most. It produces the extra downforce to run the corner quicker. It's how Red Bull has led in all sector times. The corners.

I think it is only part of the RB secret to their pace, but i expect it to affect them most in qualy as they seems to be working the system best.

They will be light years ahead in Barcelona during qualy as it is still allowed this weekend.

[CyleB]

Red Bull, Ferrari, Williams (sort of), Mclaren are all going to have to rethink their systems

How could you forget Renault???

[djos]

Interesting, apparently Webber better adapted to the RB6 before the continous flow engine mapping was put on so it will be interesting to see how this change affects both drivers when it's removed from the RB7 for Monaco!

[raymondu999]

Let's keep the thread more on the technical aspects of this new regulation, rather than the driver aspect

[djos]

Let's keep the thread more on the technical aspects of this new regulation, rather than the driver aspect

It's quite relevant imo as without the drivers all we have is a stationary car to look at.

[dren]

If the balance is really such an issue, maybe KERS can be run to supplement rather than throttle input? Not sure how that stacks up to the rules.

But KERS doesn't produce gas for the exhaust.

The engine is a gas pump, KERS can keep it pumping gasses.

[gridwalker]

That wouldn't be possible

The way that retarded ignition works is by pumping fuel into the cylinder even when no power is required, however the fuel isn't ignited by the spark plug. The fuel/air mixture is simply pumped out of the cylinder exhaust valve, where it ignites and expands in the exhaust manifold. This creates the flow of gasses when the driver is off of the throttle.

The engine isn't pumping gas, it is pumping fuel that combusts to create the gas : describing the engine as a gas pump is a gross oversimplification.

KERS does not increase the fuel flow through the cylinder relative to throttle position, as it provides power electrically. If a driver is off throttle (running at the FIA specified 10% limit) activating Kers will not increase the amount of fuel delivered to the engine. Thus, it cannot "pump" gasses out of the engine because it doesn't provide any additional fuel to create more expanding gas.

Retarded ignition allows fuel to be burned without delivering additional power : Kers allows additional power to be generated without burning extra fuel ...

One cannot be used in place of the other; they serve completely different purposes.

[Dragonfly]

Then, how does air goes into the engine?
You may inject as much fuel as you want, but without the air supplied oxygen there will be very little, if any, gas on the backside.
And air is a gas, pumped into and then compressed by the engine.

[gridwalker]

If the volume of air that the engine is able to pump was sufficient to achieve the same effect, then why have they bothered wasting so much fuel by burning it on the overrun? If the air being injected into the cylinders was sufficient to generate the same effect, then they've all been wasting their time, money and precious hydrocarbons.

They've been burning extra fuel to create the gasses because the expansion ratio from the fuel combustion massively increases the volume by comparison to the fuel/air mix alone. I'm at work, so can't dig out the exact figures, but it is the incredible expansion of the fuel/air combustion that makes the overrun exhaust blowing possible. When this expansion is trapped in the cylinder, it forces the piston down due to the pressure increase, which is the very principle upon which the internal combustion engine is based! All they are doing is harnessing this expansion in a different way, venting the gas rather than harnessing it in the chamber.

If the air injectors were forcing sufficient volumes through the chamber to drive the EBD, then there would be no point in using this fuel stuff in the first place : the air injectors would be able to pressurise the cylinders all on their own!

[godlameroso]

At stoichiometry the ratio is roughly 14.2:1 meaning that the volume of the A/F ratio expands roughly 14x after combustion. This expansion can be controlled by the amount of air and/or gas being injected into the cylinder, and when the ignition event occurs in relation to piston top dead center in the cylinder.

Ideally you want a little advance as engine speeds pick up, because gasoline is not supposed to explode violently inside the cylinder, when it does you have a problem.

[Dragonfly]

If the volume of air that the engine is able to pump was sufficient to achieve the same effect, then why have they bothered wasting so much fuel by burning it on the overrun? If the air being injected into the cylinders was sufficient to generate the same effect, then they've all been wasting their time, money and precious hydrocarbons.
...............

Then, how does air goes into the engine?
You may inject as much fuel as you want, but without the air supplied oxygen there will be very little, if any, gas on the backside.
And air is a gas, pumped into and then compressed by the engine.

You seem to misunderstand my post. Sorry if I've not been precise in my wording.
I only wanted to point that the engine actually pumps air in during the intake cycle while fuel is pumped and injected by its fuel system.
No argument whatsoever against the rest you say and the way significantly larger amount of gasses are produced during combustion.

[Tjakka]

soz nevermind

[tikavi]

That wouldn't be possible

The way that retarded ignition works is by pumping fuel into the cylinder even when no power is required, however the fuel isn't ignited by the spark plug. The fuel/air mixture is simply pumped out of the cylinder exhaust valve, where it ignites and expands in the exhaust manifold. This creates the flow of gasses when the driver is off of the throttle.
(...)

It is, ignition is only delayed.

[Giblet]

If the volume of air that the engine is able to pump was sufficient to achieve the same effect, then why have they bothered wasting so much fuel by burning it on the overrun? If the air being injected into the cylinders was sufficient to generate the same effect, then they've all been wasting their time, money and precious hydrocarbons.

They've been burning extra fuel to create the gasses because the expansion ratio from the fuel combustion massively increases the volume by comparison to the fuel/air mix alone. I'm at work, so can't dig out the exact figures, but it is the incredible expansion of the fuel/air combustion that makes the overrun exhaust blowing possible. When this expansion is trapped in the cylinder, it forces the piston down due to the pressure increase, which is the very principle upon which the internal combustion engine is based! All they are doing is harnessing this expansion in a different way, venting the gas rather than harnessing it in the chamber.

If the air injectors were forcing sufficient volumes through the chamber to drive the EBD, then there would be no point in using this fuel stuff in the first place : the air injectors would be able to pressurise the cylinders all on their own!

Like a 2-stroke expansion pipe?