Flexible wings 2011

[Richard]

Flex of the wing is not comparable to a loose connection.

Consider mechanical pragmatics for a moment. It is unreasonable to have a wing that doesn't have noticeable flex along its length given how slender they are and the forces exerted on them.

However, it is easy to have a connection that is near fully stiff, ie any flex is near immeasurable. When I say "near" stiff, even allowing 1mm opening of the gap would be generous.

Hence the rules say rigid connections, but allow some flex over the length of the wing.

RB comply with rules. IF McLaren is opening as much as it appears that can only be due to an incompetent engineer undersizing the connection, or malicious intent. If it was malicious intent then they could have easily hidden it in the detailing. So why didn't they?

[wesley123]

I just woke up and i figured this out;

The wing doesnt flex, at least not what we are talking about. The red bull wing flexes, this one just pivots around a point and is further perfectly flex free, therefore legal.

[Coefficient]

Has anybody considered that Mclaren may have made this wing in an attempt to paint the FIA into a corner so they have to take some action re: the RBR flexi wing situation? i.e. it passes scrutineering but FIA don't like it so Mr. Whitmarsh says "right back at you re: RB7 Charlie".

Why else would they make it so easy see operating?

I think the teams could all find their own flexi wing techniques if push came to shove but I get the impression there is a reluctance to spend the money on the technology so maybe they just want to curtail the pursuit of another line of hideously expensive research that will only bring diminishing returns and is of no significance to the average viewer.

Having one team with the technology detracts from the excitement as they innevitably dominate so to keep it fun and meaningful for the fans its best to get rid of it altogether.

[Richard]

I just woke up and i figured this out;

The wing doesnt flex, at least not what we are talking about. The red bull wing flexes, this one just pivots around a point and is further perfectly flex free, therefore legal.

No - it fails the rigidly connected requirement of 3.15:

... any specific part of the car influencing its aerodynamic performance ... must be rigidly secured to the entirely sprung part of the car (rigidly secured means not having any degree of freedom).

Also the deflection test measures the movement of the wing & nose in its assembled state. It doesn't differentiate the cause of that movement, only the end result.

[raymondu999]

Has anybody considered that Mclaren may have made this wing in an attempt to paint the FIA into a corner so they have to take some action re: the RBR flexi wing situation?

I suspect it could. I remember McLaren's drivers (either on purpose/honestly) complaining about how dangerous sidepod mirrors were after they tested them in Melbourne 2010. Also I think Lewis's comments around Monaco (with them being able to just turn up the engine to "max downforce" was slightly aimed at doing that.

[n_anirudh]

I just woke up and i figured this out;

The wing doesnt flex, at least not what we are talking about. The red bull wing flexes, this one just pivots around a point and is further perfectly flex free, therefore legal.

pretty much agree with u mate..the pylons are pivoted in the front...with the rear bit looking to bend n flex..all this happens in the mandated central section..not like the RB, where the outboard bits flex.

It has to be rigidly fixed though allowing no relative movement to the pylons..

[Giblet]

Hmm.. if the wing was connected inside the pylons in an upside down L shaped channel, the wing could not physically be moved down with the test, until it was moved back ever so slightly.

This would be a very simple way to beat the static load tests. It would require some forward force before it would be able to move down.

Red Bull could be doing it similarly, instead inside the wings as opposed to in the pylons.

[Ferraripilot]

@ 747:

kind thanks for the explanation. I thought the name of the game was to have more downforce at higher speeds? At what speed does more downforce become a diminishing return therefore a negative. Dealing with such low mach numbers makes this difficult

[Richard]

I thought the name of the game was to have more downforce at higher speeds?

F1 uses high downforce for traction under acceleration, and to stop the car sliding sideways in a corner. However, the wing angles to give high downforce act as parachute on a straight line.

Hence DRS reduces the wing angle to allow the car to go faster. Less wing = less downforce, and less wing = more speed.

[Richard]

Hmm.. if the wing was connected inside the pylons in an upside down L shaped channel, the wing could not physically be moved down with the test, until it was moved back ever so slightly.

This would be a very simple way to beat the static load tests. It would require some forward force before it would be able to move down.

That's the same as Ferrari's partial wing connection noted in earlier posts. Illegal because it is not rigidly connected.

[raymondu999]

To be fair I think Ferraripilot was talking more of Suzuka/Silverstone-like Esses

[PlatinumZealot]

I just woke up and i figured this out;

The wing doesnt flex, at least not what we are talking about. The red bull wing flexes, this one just pivots around a point and is further perfectly flex free, therefore legal.

Pivoting is even more illegal than flexing. Pivoting is the quintessential of moveable aero. Pretty sure what you see on the Macca front wing is just regular stretching and compressing we see on the body parts of all cars. I have seen engine covers pulling apart and lifting up and end-plates vibrating and twisting... but they are all natural and legal movements.

[wesley123]

I just woke up and i figured this out;

The wing doesnt flex, at least not what we are talking about. The red bull wing flexes, this one just pivots around a point and is further perfectly flex free, therefore legal.

Pivoting is even more illegal than flexing. Pivoting is the quintessential of moveable aero. Pretty sure what you see on the Macca front wing is just regular stretching and compressing we see on the body parts of all cars. I have seen engine covers pulling apart and lifting up and end-plates vibrating and twisting... but they are all natural and legal movements.

Correct, although I do not know if i described it correctly. The point was that it doesnt flex, since the whole wing itself moves around an angle, I dont think it is illegal, since this movement is also purely natural.

Apart from that, the rules state this;

3.15 Aerodynamic influence :
With the exception of the driver adjustable bodywork described in Article 3.18 (in addition to minimal parts
solely associated with its actuation) and the ducts described in Article 11.4, any specific part of the car
influencing its aerodynamic performance :
2011 F1 Technical Regulations 16 of 73 8 March 2011
© 2010 Fédération Internationale de l’Automobile
- must comply with the rules relating to bodywork ;
- must be rigidly secured to the entirely sprung part of the car (rigidly secured means not having any
degree of freedom) ;
- must remain immobile in relation to the sprung part of the car.
Any device or construction that is designed to bridge the gap between the sprung part of the car and the
ground is prohibited under all circumstances.
No part having an aerodynamic influence and no part of the bodywork, with the exception of the skid block
in 3.13 above, may under any circumstances be located below the reference plane.
With the exception of the parts necessary for the adjustment described in Article 3.18, any car system,
device or procedure which uses, or is suspected of using, driver movement as a means of altering the
aerodynamic characteristics of the car is prohibited.

The wing moves due to it not being rigidly secured to the pillars, thus breaching the rule.

But then on the other hand, wheels also influence the aerodynamic performance of the car, internals do to and the steering wheel does too.

This is just one of the rules you can interpreter in any way you want.

The wing will be illegal per rules, as does the Red Bull front wing, but since this doesnt happen when scruteneering it is deemed legal. They can only say they do not want to see it happen next time, but they cannot penalize them for it.

[747heavy]

please remove

[PlatinumZealot]

Wheel bearings are quite good these days.
Aero drag, well some cars are more efficient than others.
Tyre drag with down force though, maybe you can give us an idea. should make a good topic.