Mercedes GP - Inauguration and 1st season

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

In overall resource terms, I dont think Mercedes GP is giving away much to Red Bull or Mclaren, other than staff numbers. Ferrari is another matter entirely of course.

Wouldnt it be fantastic to see a lean team, with promising young engineers do well?
Renault kind of had a similar ethos last year but didnt hang round too long, now that Lotus badges will adorn the car.

But yea, I think Status quo will be maintained next year. But maybe with a Mercedes yapping at the heels at a suited track.

[marcush.]

Didn´t we read something about huge sums pumped into RedBullTechnologies by Mateschitz recently?
Technologywise I think they are well sorted there.And they invest in the right places it looks like.
Is mercedes really that much involved on the tech side of Mercedes GrandPrix?would this have any major effect on their performance?Not so sure.

We tend to forget just how big those companies are and what sort of turnover they create ...just to campaign two cars at 18weekends...

[mep]

What could Mercedes even deliver?
They build tons heavy street cruisers for grandfather with handbrakes next to the clutch pedal and other crazy stuff.
Nothing of this stuff can be used in a race car.
You might think they have hordes of super engineers but most of them are probably totally worthless. They are used to a bureaucracy work environment and to their street cruiser products. A major brain reset is needed before you can use them in a race team.
So the best thing they can deliver is money.
Something that Redbull can also bring. In addition Redbull brings a young and hip image. Something that fits much better to a race team than the conservative Mercedes image.

[marcush.]

ah ..no mep it´s too harsh...
An oem has normal access to material specialists ..CT radiography,electronbeammicroscopes and real useful stuff to get to the bottom of some real issues that can drive you crazy .So in cas Ross has some fundamental questions to be answered I think having access to this equipment is very useful..especially if it is paid for by the owner of the entity..
There are a few Dr xx in the company that have really some idea of how things work as well so not all of them are completely useless.I know at least one of them ..
The pros are definitely there but you are right the mass of engineers are not really what Ross would need to improve his raceteam..

[xpensive]

I belive our that what our honorable member from Ravenburg enquires something along the following; How can you possibly transfer long term beurorcratic deep and insightful knowledge to the week-to-week-changing technical culture of an F1 team?

If you ask me you simply cannot, even without even been close to an F1 outfit, but having worked with similar T-Rex's in
the past and decided to go freelance as a result of it. Tell you what, I never ever looked back.

I wouldn't be suprised if Ron the con haves a drink or two at Fat Norbert's xpense, thinking it was a stroke of luck.

[marcush.]

mind you there are always ways to bypass the bureaucracy(?)in a big entity.I was always surprised what can be done by by simplly being a pain in the ass and having a good rapport with higher levels of leadership within a company .Maybe I was lucky but i was always at ease to get things done when everyone said no ways you can have this Quick.
Normally it took me a phone call or,better: a quick visit and some serious preparation -No Presentaion!-to get things rolling ..if you stuck to the rules you soon felt like a stranded whale at the australian border...

[Blackout]

Renault has pulled out

Not really. Not yet...
And the R31 is a Renault.

[xpensive]

mind you there are always ways to bypass the bureaucracy(?)in a big entity.
...

I agree marcush, there are always ways for cunning engineers such as you or myself to get around the red tape once or twice on certain issues, but I'm afraid that for an outside entity such as MGP to establish a regular hotline to the Daimler R&D center without even sporting a Doctor's hat, I have serious doubts indeed.

Even so, having said hotline up and running after some off-the-record wheelings and dealings, my xperience is that you eventually will run into the always unavoidable "what's innit for me?" scenario.

This is why I prefer freelancing for this Trondheim outfit, which belongs to a 130 000 staff American corporation, it's bad enough that I receive their corporate info on my Lotus Notes about an office in Jakarta having a public holiday.

I can only imagine what RB has to go through, hope he can afford a secretary of sorts.

[marcush.]

hehehe..
my boss at PAG was not reading emails at all. The footwork I was prepared to do approaching him personally paid off in 99% of the cases...
it really worked everywere to show presence.
Opposed to this I see people in my new job taking the phone or email even when sitting only about 10m away from the recipient.No wonder things grind to a halt almost instantly.I tried to work from home but this is just not working with most people ...they need to feel your breath to get going...

I´m sure that Brawn is only able to go top down into Mercedes facilities.No ways people will be open and supportive (with brain and creativity )this way around.If you have earned respect with your collegues ..you will see the true abilties and expertise only and ,I have to admit I found some surprises at the top and down to the very bottom.definitively not available to Norby or Ross.
A friend of mine worked in Stuttgart when Mercedes started their Engine programme F1 with Ilmor.Those stuttgart guys were NOT supporting the brits as they had their own idea how a 3 litre GP engine should look (flat!).They did go thru the motions and thats about it,really. part throttle ,at best.

[xpensive]

There you go marcush. I can still vividly recall being in meetings at the corporate headquarters in Graz(!) in the mid 90s, representing the US subsidirary, when I present my case and humbly asking for funding. After each and every point in my well prepered agenda, the Austrian attendeeds were discussing things in German, or their peculiar interpretation of said language, internally before giving their non-challengable verdict.

Little did they know that I do have a fairly good idea about what "tollkopf" means.

With that xperience, I can visualize what RB is going thru.

[marcush.]

there you go.I face the same with my italien friend here.As the going gets tough and my questions start to put discomfort to them they switch from italo english straight to italien and do not realise that I understand very well what is said or intended.

RB is in deed at a loss with the stuttgart guys ..especially when he has no dr.title.

[xpensive]

Incidentally, for RB's mentor MrM, the German lingo was never much of a problem, wonder if he could even switch dialects when haggling with Haug, Theissen and even Mateschitz at times? Schwaben would perhaps be a bit of a challenge though?

I know for a fact that my ability to speak english differently when meeting a Texan or a Scot is an asset.

Aussies I need an interpretor for.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

I think the discreprancy between ilmor and Stuttgart was that Mercedes werent fully invested with Ilmor.
Whereas with Mercedes GP it is for all intents and purposes a Mercedes Benz venture. The boys in Stutgart will want to be a part of this Im sure.

For anything else to set up a Mercedes F1 team in Germany would a. be Xpensive and b. the wrong way to do things.
England is ad the greenbelt is where F1 is at(Ferrari excluded) and this is probably the next best thing for the benz engineers that hate anything un germanic....

[xpensive]

Hmm...not to get personal here JET, but has that Southampton pub have a wireless internet conection by any chance?

[mep]

I don't see why you can't build a racecar in Germany.

For anything else to set up a Mercedes F1 team in Germany would a. be Xpensive and b. the wrong way to do things.

Is England a developing country or why should it be cheaper there?
Don't forget about Toyota that build it's car in Köln. Or BMW Sauber which is located in Switzerland. Not to mention non F1 teams like Audi that keeps winning LeMans or DTM cars build here.

I just think you can't take your normal employees that build street cars and expect them to build a competitive racecar. They are just used to the things they ever did something new is hard to bring into their heads. If you want to improve your machine you must come up with changes. When you change something some unexpected things can happen and that causes some sort of risk. Every man involved with the product panics then because they are afraid to get blamed when something goes wrong. All they want is to save their own arse nobody cares how the product looks like.
I just noticed this attitude this week. A guy reported a minor lapse, I told him to ignore it and keep on working until I have solved it. The next thing he did was going home.
Can you imagine you come up with something like a f-duct and have to force it trough the company?
Convince the boss is just one part of it you must also get all those workers pulling in the same direction. Or imagine some of your colleagues does not like you. Such a guy will also not like your ideas and possible take action behind your back maybe he will even steal part of your idea and make his own solution.

I think there are good reasons why companies like Mercedes buy race teams and run them under "race team rules".