2024 Mclaren Formula 1 Team

[PapayaFan481]

Before everyone here heads off on their second summer holiday, what do we think about the B-Team situation? After a bit of disgruntlement about Daniel stealing the fastest lap point, could people express where they think any boundaries between two teams colluding should be drawn. I thought the Singapore issue was fairly minor but at the same time pointed to the sort of conflicts possible if the parent company choose to utilise the B team.

What I would not like to see is the sort of slow rolling block that was utilised in two recent championship final rounds. Hamilton blocking his own teammate in 2016 and Checo blocking Hamilton in 2021. I agree with Zak that there are questionable aspects to the case of Red Bull owning two teams. In commerce, the "watchdog" institution sometimes orders the breaking up of undesirable company hegemonies like monopolies. Personally I'd like to see RB (VCARB) prepared for sale to the highest bidder.

I think Lando needs to be having a quiet word with a certain 7 time WDC who has been on the wrong end of a Max WDC and see if he'll help where he can, maybe also have a nice chat with Carlos. 2 drivers who are leaving their current teams and clearly still think well of McLaren and Lando.

[DoctorRadio]

No one said it was a private club or that you can't post, no one is being rude to you.

Leclerc was indeed just .2 faster on newer tyres when in clean air.

Leclerc did not have the delta on mediums to make real headway against cars that on hards were much slower and that he would have turned over quite quickly.

The hard stint in particular is painfully obvious, but it seems to be more a case that you don't want to see it.

It’s you who see what you want to see; you take the laps in free air as an absolute point of reference for pace on Hards, when in some of those laps the car that has executed the overtake recharges the battery and the tyres have overheated because of the overtake and need to cool down.
Really, I will say that Mclaren was untouchable even by Leclerc in an hypothetical head to head, if that’s what pleases you.

[FittingMechanics]

It’s you who see what you want to see; you take the laps in free air as an absolute point of reference for pace on Hards, when in some of those laps the car that has executed the overtake recharges the battery and the tyres have overheated because of the overtake and need to cool down.
Really, I will say that Mclaren was untouchable even by Leclerc in an hypothetical head to head, if that’s what pleases you.

OK let's conclude we have no data and it is possible Ferrari was the car to beat.

In a similar fashion, it's possible Perez was the car to beat but he was bottled behind Colapinto and Hulkenberg. We just have no data. After all he was faster in Baku than Verstappen who finished P2 in Singapore. I'm joking but just trying to illustrate that we don't have to debate this.

It's quite likely Ferrari would have been ahead of Verstappen. I wish they were. At least that would give opportunity (if he beats them) to Lando to cut down that lead of Verstappen.

[mwillems]

No one said it was a private club or that you can't post, no one is being rude to you.

Leclerc was indeed just .2 faster on newer tyres when in clean air.

Leclerc did not have the delta on mediums to make real headway against cars that on hards were much slower and that he would have turned over quite quickly.

The hard stint in particular is painfully obvious, but it seems to be more a case that you don't want to see it.

It’s you who see what you want to see; you take the laps in free air as an absolute point of reference for pace on Hards, when in some of those laps the car that has executed the overtake recharges the battery and the tyres have overheated because of the overtake and need to cool down.
Really, I will say that Mclaren was untouchable even by Leclerc in an hypothetical head to head, if that’s what pleases you.

Was Lando not using his battery??

As I've now stated a multitude of times. That .2s was when neither driver was overtaking or in traffic. It is a real and representative example of the pace of the two cars on the same compound. Leclerc was nowhere near his rivals for the bulk of the Hard stint. He was racing for many laps in the same conditions as Lando. He was .2s faster on average, a number that is less than the 6 lap delta and on tyres needing to do 6 laps less and so can be pushed more.

The Ferrari was not on Mclarens pace yesterday.

[DoctorRadio]

No one said it was a private club or that you can't post, no one is being rude to you.

Leclerc was indeed just .2 faster on newer tyres when in clean air.

Leclerc did not have the delta on mediums to make real headway against cars that on hards were much slower and that he would have turned over quite quickly.

The hard stint in particular is painfully obvious, but it seems to be more a case that you don't want to see it.

It’s you who see what you want to see; you take the laps in free air as an absolute point of reference for pace on Hards, when in some of those laps the car that has executed the overtake recharges the battery and the tyres have overheated because of the overtake and need to cool down.
Really, I will say that Mclaren was untouchable even by Leclerc in an hypothetical head to head, if that’s what pleases you.

Was Lando not using his battery??

As I've now stated a multitude of times. That .2s was when neither driver was overtaking or in traffic. It is a real and representative example of the pace of the two cars on the same compound. Leclerc was nowhere near his rivals for the bulk of the Hard stint. He was racing for many laps in the same conditions as Lando. He was .2s faster on average, a number that is less than the 6 lap delta and on tyres needing to do 6 laps less and so can be pushed more.

The Ferrari was not on Mclarens pace yesterday.

Are you saying that the battery is used in the same way during overtaking/defending and the regular laps?
That’s news to me.

My last post here, I’ll go down to your logic and compare lap 43-48, both in free air, 0,5s/lap advantage Leclerc (62.5s gap on lap 43, 60s on lap 48).
Lap 51-56, after Leclerc had to overtake Hamilton (overheated tyres in dirty air, depleted battery for 1-2 subsequent laps), gap went down 0.4s/lap.
Accounting for the race time he lost with Alonso and the 2 Mercedes I have 0,6s, so it’s more or less that.
And you have 0.2s, so I give up.

I reiterate I have never said Leclerc was fastest, but he would have pressured Norris, I’ve no doubt on that.

[CjC]

Has any consideration been taken for Lando loosing time lapping over half of the field on his hard tyre stint?
Verstappen at one point was 29.3 seconds behind Lando but officially finished 20.9 seconds behind- gaining a whopping 8.4 seconds in 9 laps!!! Maybe Red Bull wasn’t as slow as we thought?

Also when Lando wasn’t lapping cars or setting the fastest lap on his hard stint he was consistently lapping in the mid 1:36s which would suggest to me he was driving to a delta because he didn’t need to drive flat out to gain as many positions as possible.

[mwillems]

It’s you who see what you want to see; you take the laps in free air as an absolute point of reference for pace on Hards, when in some of those laps the car that has executed the overtake recharges the battery and the tyres have overheated because of the overtake and need to cool down.
Really, I will say that Mclaren was untouchable even by Leclerc in an hypothetical head to head, if that’s what pleases you.

Was Lando not using his battery??

As I've now stated a multitude of times. That .2s was when neither driver was overtaking or in traffic. It is a real and representative example of the pace of the two cars on the same compound. Leclerc was nowhere near his rivals for the bulk of the Hard stint. He was racing for many laps in the same conditions as Lando. He was .2s faster on average, a number that is less than the 6 lap delta and on tyres needing to do 6 laps less and so can be pushed more.

The Ferrari was not on Mclarens pace yesterday.

Are you saying that the battery is used in the same way during overtaking/defending and the regular laps?
That’s news to me.

My last post here, I’ll go down to your logic and compare lap 43-48, both in free air, 0,5s/lap advantage Leclerc (62.5s gap on lap 43, 60s on lap 48).
Lap 51-56, after Leclerc had to overtake Hamilton (overheated tyres in dirty air, depleted battery for 1-2 subsequent laps), gap went down 0.4s/lap.
Accounting for the race time he lost with Alonso and the 2 Mercedes I have 0,6s, so it’s more or less that.
And you have 0.2s, so I give up.

I reiterate I have never said Leclerc was fastest, but he would have pressured Norris, I’ve no doubt on that.

"Are you saying that the battery is used in the same way during overtaking/defending and the regular laps?
That’s news to me."

No, you made specific mention of recharging the battery. When and how they use the battery doesn't change how much they recharge, both cars will recharge the same.

He breezed by Hamilton and was barely impacted, Sainz let him by, he breezed past Alonso, something he couldn't do on mediums because amongst other reasons, the car was not performing as well on mediums. The idea his tyres had overheated with each overtake is fabricated, because he went straight by all but Russell. After overtaking Hamilton to go into clean air, the delta was much lower. After Hamilton Charles did not get the same pace that you cherry picked out from his hard stint. From his hard stint to near where he caught Russell, he was .166s a lap faster than Lando. You can clearly see in the chart that he was minimally impacted by the overtakes

Better we give up, it does seem like you very much want introduce all sorts of "assumed" factors as to why the Ferrari was just being held up, when in reality, it was very far from being held up on the hards. He just wasn't as fast as you seem to suggest.

You've no doubt he'd have pressured Lando, but he could barely pressure Alonso and Hulkenberg let alone mount a credible challenge on softs.

[mwillems]

Has any consideration been taken for Lando loosing time lapping over half of the field on his hard tyre stint?
Verstappen at one point was 29.3 seconds behind Lando but officially finished 20.9 seconds behind- gaining a whopping 8.4 seconds in 9 laps!!! Maybe Red Bull wasn’t as slow as we thought?

Also when Lando wasn’t lapping cars or setting the fastest lap on his hard stint he was consistently lapping in the mid 1:36s which would suggest to me he was driving to a delta because he didn’t need to drive flat out to gain as many positions as possible.

I mean, he was literally told to drop the pace and bring the car home to avoid and mishaps around lap 50. But the good Doctor knows better.

And yes, dirty air from backmarkers, of which Lando came across more, will also affect the car.

And if there's still any misguided belief that Lando was pushing on the hards...

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/mclar ... /10657334/

"In fairness, in the second part of the second stint, our attention was drawn on the fact that as soon as you got behind the backmarkers, the car started to feel tricky,” he explained.

“So, it was all about no issues, no mistakes, no lock-ups. We had seen already in practice that as soon as you are behind a slow car, things look like there's something wrong with the car: it's just the effect of the dirty air.

“The focus was entirely on bringing the car home. We suggested to Lando to have an attempt at the fastest lap, which he achieved. But after that, we didn't want to talk about fastest lap anymore.”