2021 São Paulo Grand Prix - Interlagos, Nov 12-14

[Restomaniac]

For absolute clarity- is this an in-season, once allowed ICE upgrade that Merc have saved for the run in??

If so- presumably their customers can choose to add it to their pool (with penalties of course) from next race?

I’ve never seen speed like it down the straights. It was like 2014 PU disparity all over again!

This is what I'm wondering as well. They upgraded the turbo and the pressure in the combustion engine. How can you do that when the regs say that the engine spec must be frozen?

What are you on about they’re aren’t frozen until 2022.

[Juzh]

For absolute clarity- is this an in-season, once allowed ICE upgrade that Merc have saved for the run in??

If so- presumably their customers can choose to add it to their pool (with penalties of course) from next race?

I’ve never seen speed like it down the straights. It was like 2014 PU disparity all over again!

This is what I'm wondering as well. They upgraded the turbo and the pressure in the combustion engine. How can you do that when the regs say that the engine spec must be frozen?

There's really only one way this is possible: they always had this potential in engine hardware itself but didn't know how far they can push it and so they ran slightly detuned until they had more information and experience.

[Mogster]

That stewards decision of Hamilton missing the apex in Britain sounds ridiculous now. Max almost missed an entire stadium there.

That one never sat well with me. He was being squeezed to the wall by Max yet they expect him to make the apex. I blame Jenson Button for that narrative. he is the one that started it. Once you are on the inside you have more liberty, that has always been the case, except maybe when it's Hamilton in 2021.

Both Damon Hill and Button were big into the “make the apex” thing. After watching all types of motor racing for 35 years I’d never heard it mentioned as a criteria before that incident.

[Scorpaguy]

Another thing about Sao Paulo...Yes, Ham did have a dragster all weekend, but no one was getting out of 12 like he was.

[Starkblood80]

For absolute clarity- is this an in-season, once allowed ICE upgrade that Merc have saved for the run in??

If so- presumably their customers can choose to add it to their pool (with penalties of course) from next race?

I’ve never seen speed like it down the straights. It was like 2014 PU disparity all over again!

This is what I'm wondering as well. They upgraded the turbo and the pressure in the combustion engine. How can you do that when the regs say that the engine spec must be frozen?

The same way Honda did it perhaps

[Magicsenna_41]

So with a 20 KPH straight-line speed disadvantage...does Max try and take an engine for the next race. Yes, very determined drive by Ham (he has all of those records for a reason)...but 20 KPH made this inevitable. Honda has to start feeling a bit embarrassed again...Toto must really hate the "rising sun".

I’m pretty sure when both were in clean air it was not a 20 kph difference.

That aside, redbull were running more downforce as they were faster in the high speed corners. They could have chose to run lower downforce, just as they could have started with new engines to match their competitor.

People also have short memories and forget this season Mercedes had their aero concept ripped apart with the new regs. This meant they were having to run draggy downforce and it masked that they have a much better engine than Honda. As the season has gone on they have gained back ‘clean’ downforce so it looks like the engine is getting more powerful.

This weekend the new engine helped as it was fresh, but it was compounded as it also only has to do 4 races so could run higher output modes.

It was more like 7-10 km/hr without DRS. Max was maxing out at around 304 km/hr whilst Lewis would get up to 310-313 km/hr range, he'd gain like 2 tenths from the Junction to the finish line.

Yeah exactly 0.2s but he had a tow from Verstappen. There is maximum 5kph difference between both cars and much of it because of chosen downforce levels.

[AeroDynamic]

Really? If you don’t make the corner and go off track as much as max did, and impede a driver ahead in the process, then that is not being in control of your car. If max did that to max = probably a dnf for both.

Hilarious take from Maxers, as expected. Hamilton would absolutely have made that corner. They make it sound as if he failed to make it, or it was a voluntary decision to go off track

Let me settle what really happened, in an objective manner. Max deliberately, or indeliberately ran wide, taking Lewis out of the track with him. He then kept going wider after going off the track, further driving Lewis out wide. It is a very, very clear example of crowding out another car out of space; it's baffling why they weren't asked to give back the place.

I’m confused, are you posing my post as something you’re arguing against? Because my post doesn’t assert what you seem to think it does.

It’s and advantage to use the outside area of the track to stay ahead of another car. And it is also not correct to lack control of your car to not make a corner and impede a competitor in the process of finishing overtaking you; I.e. going way off the circuit track as max did, should have been told to give back the place

Seems like the FIA have become afraid to penalise max since 2019 with that false sense of “let them race”.

Yes, let racers race, don’t let Fouling drivers foul.

[bonjon1979]

If I was merc, I would be showing the video of max forcing Lewis off again and again and again. It’s a different rule for max to everyone else. How can anyone be punished for not leaving room on the outside anymore? Max ran himself off the road in running Hamilton off the road. I don’t understand what the rules are anymore.

[politburo]

For absolute clarity- is this an in-season, once allowed ICE upgrade that Merc have saved for the run in??

If so- presumably their customers can choose to add it to their pool (with penalties of course) from next race?

I’ve never seen speed like it down the straights. It was like 2014 PU disparity all over again!

This is what I'm wondering as well. They upgraded the turbo and the pressure in the combustion engine. How can you do that when the regs say that the engine spec must be frozen?

There's really only one way this is possible: they always had this potential in engine hardware itself but didn't know how far they can push it and so they ran slightly detuned until they had more information and experience.

True, it must be they just turned it up fully and already had it, as if it were a new spec they'd have had to go to the back in the main race, and that would have been disastrous for the chances of a win (maybe).

[Magicsenna_41]

I see just the 2 Honda teams in the speed traps and more so I didn`t see HAM in the top 6 in the most important :

http://postimg.cc/LY54vZy6

'Stellar clinical'-Horners statements become more and more ridicolous checking these stats.

I am not getting into the Horner statements (I haven't checked them really), but these numbers don't tell for instance the acceleration.

Yes of course not but Horner ist always claiming in front of mics Mercs has 15kph advantage. Thats not true and he is trying to make sth up.

[zibby43]

[Mogster]

Really? If you don’t make the corner and go off track as much as max did, and impede a driver ahead in the process, then that is not being in control of your car. If max did that to max = probably a dnf for both.

Hilarious take from Maxers, as expected. Hamilton would absolutely have made that corner. They make it sound as if he failed to make it, or it was a voluntary decision to go off track

Let me settle what really happened, in an objective manner. Max deliberately, or indeliberately ran wide, taking Lewis out of the track with him. He then kept going wider after going off the track, further driving Lewis out wide. It is a very, very clear example of crowding out another car out of space; it's baffling why they weren't asked to give back the place.

Give what place back? Hamilton hadn't fully passed Verstappen by then

[nevill3]

Lewis fined 5,000 for undoing his seat belts

[Shrieker]

Give what place back? Hamilton hadn't fully passed Verstappen by then

https://imgur.com/a/cnpLWc0

At this point, MV is the one doing the passing by braking later than his rival, and does so by running both off the track. He also keeps running his rival even wider, after they're both off the track for some reason.

So he gains a lasting advantage (which is position), by driving both off the track. Correct decision is to ask his team to hand the place back immediately, or hand out a 5 second time penalty.

[politburo]

If I was merc, I would be showing the video of max forcing Lewis off again and again and again. It’s a different rule for max to everyone else. How can anyone be punished for not leaving room on the outside anymore? Max ran himself off the road in running Hamilton off the road. I don’t understand what the rules are anymore.

surely your memory is not that short, Hamilton did that to Verstappen in Bahrain earlier this same year, and you could clearly see onboard Lewis closing the steering angle despite Verstappen being right alongside, people said racing incident, and Verstappen despite going past had to give the place back an ended up in 2nd. That and the Silverston racing incident, which after seeing the trajectory analysis again and again and again just feels like a huge pile of leniency for the sake of leniency from the FIA.

All of this about absolutely nothing. Verstappen has got penalties for his driving in Monza as well. That also happened.