2023 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

[TNTHead]

You can vote who is the GOAT. After last race Gazetta della Sport is suggesting that Max is within reach of the top step.
https://www.gazzetta.it/Formula-1/09-05 ... ppen.shtml

I think thats premature, but he shows to be among the greatest, no doubt.

[KimiRai]

You can vote who is the GOAT. After last race Gazetta della Sport is suggesting that Max is within reach of the top step.
https://www.gazzetta.it/Formula-1/09-05 ... ppen.shtml

I think thats premature, but he shows to be among the greatest, no doubt.

Only 5 drivers to choose from, thats way too low. I know at least one more person who is currently racing that should be in that poll...

[dren]

Not sure if it is a gearbox problem or control / hybrid mapping issue. There has been a lot of complaining also about the behavior of the rear under braking. Since their hybrid energy recovery and deployment is very good, it could also be that they are simply very aggressive and that it affects drivability.

That's been my guess. Very aggressive when braking.

Yes. The stopping of the car was crazy in comparison when overtaking others. That is not just a bit more downforce, they use the rear a lot for braking. That is much more difficult than having the brake balance a bit more on the front.

I was thinking they may be overruning the PU on long braking events to get extra gen which would manifest itself at the rear. Perez had an issue a race or two back in a braking zone where he said the car kept going or something like that.

[AR3-GP]

That's been my guess. Very aggressive when braking.

Yes. The stopping of the car was crazy in comparison when overtaking others. That is not just a bit more downforce, they use the rear a lot for braking. That is much more difficult than having the brake balance a bit more on the front.

I was thinking they may be overruning the PU on long braking events to get extra gen which would manifest itself at the rear. Perez had an issue a race or two back in a braking zone where he said the car kept going or something like that.

this kind of stuff is not rocket science (among the PU manufacturers). Everyone is doing it. I don't think this is where the Honda advantage comes from.

[Edax]

Not sure if it is a gearbox problem or control / hybrid mapping issue. There has been a lot of complaining also about the behavior of the rear under braking. Since their hybrid energy recovery and deployment is very good, it could also be that they are simply very aggressive and that it affects drivability.

That's been my guess. Very aggressive when braking.

Yes. The stopping of the car was crazy in comparison when overtaking others. That is not just a bit more downforce, they use the rear a lot for braking. That is much more difficult than having the brake balance a bit more on the front.

Max complains about the car more than every driver I know, every race there's an issue.

Well, his complaints make it just more to the world feed, which is not uncommon as the leading driver. It is not even 1% of the radio that we hear during the race.

I wouldn’t put it totally down to the car. Others were also able to plant extremely smooth overtakes there. Maybe not as far away as VES, but still quite impressive in terms of braking without locking the inside wheel or overshooting.

Looks like the inside line was very clean and sticky.

Would be interesting to see whether Ves has been exploring that line in preparation for the race.

[Sieper]

You can vote who is the GOAT. After last race Gazetta della Sport is suggesting that Max is within reach of the top step.
https://www.gazzetta.it/Formula-1/09-05 ... ppen.shtml

I think thats premature, but he shows to be among the greatest, no doubt.

Only 5 drivers to choose from, thats way too low. I know at least one more person who is currently racing that should be in that poll...

Agree. Alonso has been the greatest for over a decade. Just never had the car to claim the points.

It is just so hard to compare, different times, different career lengths etc. Just appreciate the greats. Maybe that is better than the term just one goat.

I have always felt that Max is one of those very special. His whole career from karting, F3 the junior F1 years, always was spectacular.

[mendis]

You can vote who is the GOAT. After last race Gazetta della Sport is suggesting that Max is within reach of the top step.
https://www.gazzetta.it/Formula-1/09-05 ... ppen.shtml

I think thats premature, but he shows to be among the greatest, no doubt.

They should have called it GOAT of statistics to be more appropriate. If the list doesn't contain the likes of Clark, Stewart, Lauda, Hunt, Prost, Vettel and Alonso, then it makes perfect sense to call it GOAT of statistics.

What kind of mental orgasam people get by conducting or participating in such polls which are devoid of even basic rationality? How can you compare drivers across generations? How is that so many talented drivers not part of such a discussion just because they didn't get the winning equipment continuously? These polls are absolute junk in my opinion.

[Sieper]

Max didn’t have winning equipment continuously. He and the team built from 2016 onwards to finally be able to challenge in 21.

[TNTHead]

Don't want to fuel a debate. I think the whole concept of the GOAT is flawed. I think you can only say the best of his generation. ALO is ofcourse among them.

But that the marvellous drive of the Max in Miami has not been left unnoticed.

[basti313]

That's been my guess. Very aggressive when braking.

Yes. The stopping of the car was crazy in comparison when overtaking others. That is not just a bit more downforce, they use the rear a lot for braking. That is much more difficult than having the brake balance a bit more on the front.

I was thinking they may be overruning the PU on long braking events to get extra gen which would manifest itself at the rear. Perez had an issue a race or two back in a braking zone where he said the car kept going or something like that.

That does not really make sense as the regen during braking is rather limited by the battery. Generating even more does not make sense.
I think exactly this hit Perez, the generator braking was too small, maybe because the battery was full.

[dren]

There isn't enough brake regen in a lap to fill the battery.

[vorticism]

That's been my guess. Very aggressive when braking.

Yes. The stopping of the car was crazy in comparison when overtaking others. That is not just a bit more downforce, they use the rear a lot for braking. That is much more difficult than having the brake balance a bit more on the front.

I was thinking they may be overruning the PU on long braking events to get extra gen which would manifest itself at the rear. Perez had an issue a race or two back in a braking zone where he said the car kept going or something like that.

Interesting. That could manifest as less engine braking. Now solve for how important is engine braking for rear axle braking feel.

If the K doesn't absorb all the excess ICE output (in such a regime) then you end up with variation in total rear axle braking force.

You can vote who is the GOAT. After last race Gazetta della Sport is suggesting that Max is within reach of the top step.
https://www.gazzetta.it/Formula-1/09-05 ... ppen.shtml

I think thats premature, but he shows to be among the greatest, no doubt.

Only 5 drivers to choose from, thats way too low. I know at least one more person who is currently racing that should be in that poll...

Agree. Alonso has been the greatest for over a decade. Just never had the car to claim the points.

It is just so hard to compare, different times, different career lengths etc. Just appreciate the greats. Maybe that is better than the term just one goat.

I have always felt that Max is one of those very special. His whole career from karting, F3 the junior F1 years, always was spectacular.

Fun to think, if F1 hadn't turned into a Greenpeace stunt in 2014 Vettel would have 11 or more WDCs culminating in an intense rivalry with Verstappen who might be at 4 or 5 by now. To speak of GOATS. F1 lost a gigaGOAT potential. What would have happened with Alonso and Ferrari through such a period, one wonders.

[PlatinumZealot]

You can vote who is the GOAT. After last race Gazetta della Sport is suggesting that Max is within reach of the top step.
https://www.gazzetta.it/Formula-1/09-05 ... ppen.shtml

I think thats premature, but he shows to be among the greatest, no doubt.

Problem with Max is that he's just like Vettel in 2013 at this point. He hasn't faced a serious rival in the same car to really know how good he is. Sadly Christian would never pair him with Lando or LeClerc.

[Bill]

You can vote who is the GOAT. After last race Gazetta della Sport is suggesting that Max is within reach of the top step.
https://www.gazzetta.it/Formula-1/09-05 ... ppen.shtml

I think thats premature, but he shows to be among the greatest, no doubt.

Problem with Max is that he's just like Vettel in 2013 at this point. He hasn't faced a serious rival in the same car to really know how good he is. Sadly Christian would never pair him with Lando or LeClerc.

Lando was given offer by red bull but declined and chickened out.he will never win a champion ,not with mclaren.

[carisi2k]

You can vote who is the GOAT. After last race Gazetta della Sport is suggesting that Max is within reach of the top step.
https://www.gazzetta.it/Formula-1/09-05 ... ppen.shtml

I think thats premature, but he shows to be among the greatest, no doubt.

Problem with Max is that he's just like Vettel in 2013 at this point. He hasn't faced a serious rival in the same car to really know how good he is. Sadly Christian would never pair him with Lando or LeClerc.

Not the same at all. Post 2010 it is true that MW never got to grips with the Piralli's to truly be able to take it to Seb and neither Fernando or Lewis were really in the same level of equipment as Seb was. This cannot be said about max in 2021. Lewis and Max had very similar equipment capabilities and if not for some Mercedes cheating and the unfortunate Baku incident he would have had the championship sewn up much earlier with no final race showdown.