[KVRC] Khamsin Virtual Racecar Challenge 2016

Post here information about your own engineering projects, including but not limited to building your own car or designing a virtual car through CAD.
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CAEdevice
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Joined: 09 Jan 2014, 15:33
Location: Erba, Italy

Re: Khamsin Virtual Racecar Challenge 2016

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LVDH wrote:I have ran a test using OF 3.0.0 with a heat exchanger modeled as porous media:
http://mantiumcae.com/wp-content/uploads/MR_wHX1.png
While it took some time to get the new OF working there were no issues with convergence etc. as the plot shows:
http://mantiumcae.com/wp-content/uploads/residuals.png

After the test I think we should go for this approach because:
-It is easier for compliance check. No inner and outer volumes, no three surfaces. It is only one box shape (pink in the picture) that has to be checked.
- The cars will look cooler as clearances to and from the heat exchangers is our problem.
- We will have to design nice internal ducts. From F1 cars and so on we never see what is going on in the inside. Here we could all see and learn something.
-As mass flow through the heat exchangers would affect engine performance we have a new trade-off to take care of making the challenge a bit more difficult and even more interesting.
Exaclty what I was thinking about! Perfect job!

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machin
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Joined: 25 Nov 2008, 14:45

Re: Khamsin Virtual Racecar Challenge 2016

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The CFD is not my side of things of course... but some comments from someone (me) who "doesn't really understand these things":

1, Would this (internal flows) make the challenge too difficult for the novice? We want to encourage more people to enter not less, afterall...
2, Would the internal flows increase computing power requirement/increase drastically the time required to do the analysis?
3, Would the size of the "Radiator Core" be a fixed area and/or shape?
4, At the moment I know that Chris and Julien have to spend considerable time "cleaning up" some of the models that are submitted so that the CFD analysis works... would introducing internal flows mean that more time is required on this aspect?
5, Let's not forget that Julien has already started down the path of incorporating a more realistic cooling/intake simulation... this might not simulate internal flows, but it might be a better compromise between accuracy and "accessibility" for the novice entrant....
COMPETITION CAR ENGINEERING -Home of VIRTUAL STOPWATCH

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CAEdevice
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Joined: 09 Jan 2014, 15:33
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Re: Khamsin Virtual Racecar Challenge 2016

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My opinion:
1) Easier to design (less rules).
2) With "porous" volume (Mantium test), not relevant increase of computational resources
3) I think that two or three radiator models could be provided
4) The rule check would be easier. The cleaning if the geometry depends on the stl quality (SpaceClaim or SolidWorks produce gid quality mesh)
5) Mantium approach (and mine) only simulates a simplified internal flow, with the "porous" volume trick (radiator details are not represented). I don't know very much about Julien's model (I'm sure it will work as great as always!)

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LVDH
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Joined: 31 Mar 2015, 14:23

Re: Khamsin Virtual Racecar Challenge 2016

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machin wrote: 1, Would this (internal flows) make the challenge too difficult for the novice? We want to encourage more people to enter not less, afterall...
Not sure what others think. But it is a duct. And I was sometimes annoyed constructing these cooling inlet and outlet surfaces. The box for the porous media would have to be flush with the duct though. Maybe a frame should be mandated.
machin wrote: 2, Would the internal flows increase computing power requirement/increase drastically the time required to do the analysis?
It should only affect runtimes slightly. I could perform a small benchmark the next days.
machin wrote:3, Would the size of the "Radiator Core" be a fixed area and/or shape?
Thickness should be mandated. Area as well with limits for width and height, similar to like it is now. So almost what we have but with a thickness.
machin wrote:4, At the moment I know that Chris and Julien have to spend considerable time "cleaning up" some of the models that are submitted so that the CFD analysis works... would introducing internal flows mean that more time is required on this aspect?
The box itself should not be a problem. It has to be flush / sealed with the internal walls. Or maybe actually not: If people have gaps which deteriorate the flow it would be their own fault. And I wonder what you clean up. I liked my special surfaces slightly intersecting the geometry to help out the mesher. In the end you guys then told me that was not good.
machin wrote:5, Let's not forget that Julien has already started down the path of incorporating a more realistic cooling/intake simulation... this might not simulate internal flows, but it might be a better compromise between accuracy and "accessibility" for the novice entrant....
I was not aware of that. He will have to answer that.

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LVDH
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Re: Khamsin Virtual Racecar Challenge 2016

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machin wrote: 4, At the moment I know that Chris and Julien have to spend considerable time "cleaning up" some of the models that are submitted so that the CFD analysis works... would introducing internal flows mean that more time is required on this aspect?
Some time ago I found a hidden wrapper in OF. At the Conference in Stuttgart a few months ago it was confirmed to be in there, still hidden but it will be official release soon.

Unfortunately I forgot where it was and cannot find it anymore. Maybe someone here knows more. It was probably an option in surfaceClean*something or directly in snappyHexMesh. But I really forgot. If we can find it, it should help a lot with CAD clean-up.

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CAEdevice
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Joined: 09 Jan 2014, 15:33
Location: Erba, Italy

Re: Khamsin Virtual Racecar Challenge 2016

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Let me change the topic for a while.
Today the KVRC 2015 prize has been officially delivered to the winner Variante (congratulations for the great season!).

I'd like to contribute again next year (if a bigger sponsor will help it would be ok for me, but in the meanwhile I try to give a small comtribution).

What has been the total cost of the official simulations during 2015 (amazon, local runs, ...)?. I'd like to contribute to it if possible.

evamvid
evamvid
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Joined: 02 Dec 2015, 08:04

Re: Khamsin Virtual Racecar Challenge 2016

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Just wanted to chime in and say that I really like the idea of a "Division B", where competitors only deal with nose/front wing, diffuser, and rear wing. This would be better for people who either don't have a lot of CAD experience (me), and people who don't have a lot of time to work on the car (also me).

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machin
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Joined: 25 Nov 2008, 14:45

Re: Khamsin Virtual Racecar Challenge 2016

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Cool. I'm pretty certain that Chris and Julien are pushing ahead with that idea....
COMPETITION CAR ENGINEERING -Home of VIRTUAL STOPWATCH

graham.reeds
graham.reeds
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Joined: 30 Jul 2015, 09:16

Re: Khamsin Virtual Racecar Challenge 2016

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A video tutorial would be nice. I struggle using SketchUp especially since the free version doesn't allow you to do boolean substraction/unions.

There was a package posted in another thread but it was in Italian and it appears to need a key.

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CAEdevice
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Re: Khamsin Virtual Racecar Challenge 2016

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graham.reeds wrote:A video tutorial would be nice. I struggle using SketchUp especially since the free version doesn't allow you to do boolean substraction/unions.

There was a package posted in another thread but it was in Italian and it appears to need a key.
My experience with SketchUp is not very good, but I think that there are some interesting alternatives if you are a student.

Most of CAD packages offer a student edition, most of the time it is free:

SolidWorks SE (https://store.solidworks.com/studentstore/default.php), not free (100$/12months), but with the CFD application included in a very low price
Inventor SE, free, http://www.autodesk.com/education/free- ... ofessional
Solid Edge for Students, http://www.plm.automation.siemens.com/i ... ndex.shtml
Free CAD, parametric, opensource, free: http://www.freecadweb.org/
Blender, free and open, not parametric, less "engineering" oriented, but much more reliable than Free CAD: https://www.blender.org/features/

The problem is that they all require a long learning curve , but it's worth it for your future CV!

pierlu99
pierlu99
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Joined: 26 Nov 2015, 22:17

Re: Khamsin Virtual Racecar Challenge 2016

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Sketchup is Very Very simple and It allows you to do many things without big problems..

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RicME85
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Joined: 09 Feb 2012, 13:11
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Re: Khamsin Virtual Racecar Challenge 2016

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Yeah, its like MS Paint, you can just draw and get 3d images, Solidworks etc are so much harder to do those basic things.
I have tried learning SW on a number if occasions but just cannot get my head around it.

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machin
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Joined: 25 Nov 2008, 14:45

Re: Khamsin Virtual Racecar Challenge 2016

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So I was having a play around with a "Radiator Volume", and came up with this....the part can be rotated in pitch and yaw by about 10 to 15 degrees without affecting the frontal area to allow some pretty organic sidepod shapes, with an undercut if desired (not like my simple sidepods shown here!)... Its 800mm long, 500mm wide and 400mm tall with 125mm Radius fillets at the centre section. The idea is that the "Radiator Volume" should be fully enclosed within body work. If you wanted you could rotate it 90 degrees so that it is taller than it is wide...

Image
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CAEdevice
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Joined: 09 Jan 2014, 15:33
Location: Erba, Italy

Re: Khamsin Virtual Racecar Challenge 2016

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Well done machin, interesting car. I'm more in favour of LDVH solution (a surface with a defined thickness) but the idea of the volumes could work too.

May I ask you if there is a specific reason for the short diffuser (the rear wing of most KVRC cars overlaps the difuser)?

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LVDH
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Joined: 31 Mar 2015, 14:23

Re: Khamsin Virtual Racecar Challenge 2016

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That car is not entirely legal.
But if you are good you can use the low pressure area under the rear wing to extract / pump more air out of the diffuser.
I experimented a bit with it but could not get it working. You can see some nice examples on older Le Mans cars.
Image

Regarding that new volume: I do not see the point. It would still require these inner and outer templates otherwise we could close the openings pretty much.
Because of how the CFD works I think because there would still be the inlet BC at the beginning of this volume you would get a high pressure at that inlet if you do close of the opening very much.