2020 Sakhir Grand Prix - Sakhir, Dec 04 - 06

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jjn9128
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Re: 2020 Sakhir Grand Prix - Sakhir, Dec 04 - 06

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siskue2005 wrote:
02 Dec 2020, 00:23
Seriously??? Not everything in the world is brought through financial recompense?!!!? Do you think this is a slave trade in 1800????!!??!?!

(p.s: just borrowing your exclamations and query marks.. without any financial recompense?!!!? :lol: )
You're just incredibly naive then. F1 is a business and the new owners will see Russell as the greater of their two assets - to a team this is what a driver is - he is the most likely of their 2 drivers to score points which could be worth millions to them if they can beat Haas in the championship. For them to give him up would require something in return - quid pro quo - after all he has a contract to drive for them in 2020 and 2021 that's not slavery but a valid and legal contract between driver and team. In F1 contracts, unless you're Vettel or Hamilton, the power is with the team - they can sack you without recourse but you can't leave without buying the contract out.
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piast9
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Re: 2020 Sakhir Grand Prix - Sakhir, Dec 04 - 06

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However exciting it would be if Russell drove the Mercedes I think that the most logical solution would be if Vandoorne was the substitute driver. He is the nominated reserve driver, has a superlicense, knows the car from the simulator (I think), fits in it allright (Russell is much taller than all Mercedes drivers) and does not disrupt or influence any other team's actions.

Manoah2u
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Re: 2020 Sakhir Grand Prix - Sakhir, Dec 04 - 06

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Just_a_fan wrote:
02 Dec 2020, 00:27
Manoah2u wrote:
02 Dec 2020, 00:20
Biggest chance yet for Max to get a win.
Great opportunity for Russell to shine (he's a qually beast so that's a good start), and beat Bottas.
I'm starting to warm to the thought of George and Max battling it out for the win. How much fun would that be? =D>

Of course, the reality is that George will probably be asked to help Bottas secure 2nd in the drivers' title. Bottas is 12 points ahead of Max, I think, so needs to place adjacent to him in both races with one of those being ahead.
Though I agree that if it comes down to it, he'll be asked for Valterri to secure 2nd.

However, given Valterri's last performances, If he once again drops down the order at the start, what's the point?

RedBull have improved enough that Max is able to get a Top-3 qualification result, so he's already there.

Russell has been proving to be able to wringe a lot out of his material in qualification, and as such, I think he's got a good chance of making a good qualification result. A Top-4 qualification should definately be a possibility.
I would expect Bottas, Verstappen and Perez in that mix.

And those 4 would be also what i'd concider the contenders for the podium.

Hamilton in the Merc is too big of a chunk still for Max, Bottas has proven not to. Now it's up for Russell to show he can stand his ground, and indeed, i'd be in for a battle between Max and George.

If things aren't 'perfect' for Max, he tends to get to complain and miss out regarding the tires.
That's fine and all, and still will see him end up P2 without too much effort, but can cost him a chance at P1,
where i'm sure Russell will be very very verrrryyyy hungry and opportunistic for.

Not just that, but i think it would be quite a lot of 'fun' for Mercedes too to see what they can do with Russell.
It would not only mean the team would actually focus quite a lot on George - after all, they've already got everything in the bag, WDC and WCC and can take a risk if they wanted to. It would also be quite the headline to see them get a win with George Russell. Imagine getting Russell both a Pole position AND Win AND fastest lap in the first 'oval sakhir' race.

If we concider points for the coming two races:

Bottas 12 points ahead of Max:

If Max gets P1, Bottas P2, then that will shrink down by 7 points. 8 if Max also gets fastest Lap, 6 if Bottas gets fastest lap. still 4 or 6 points ahead.

So Max would need to finish 1st TWICE and even if Bottas finishes 2nd in those occasions, Max will take P2.

If however Russell wins, and Max is P2, and bottas P3, Max will only have gained 3 points on Bottas, leaving 9 points to still make up, let's make it 10 so we're sure that if they finish in a tie, Max will come out on top.

Max would then need to WIN the final GP, and Bottas will need to finish P3 and NOT get fastest lap for Max to beat him.

The issue i'm having to be honest is that Bottas has not been showing being a consistant P1 or P2 contender whatever the outcome. Contrary to Hamilton and Verstappen.

No matter the circumstances, Hamilton and Verstappen both, are likely to fight for P1 and P2.
Bottas however, in that regard, is like Albon: yes, he might get P1 or P2, but just as easily to be found anywhere between P3 and P5.

Quite frankly, Russel in the Merc would be extremely exciting.
Vandoorne would be boring af and i couldnt' be bothered by any means whatsoever and would not make any change for anybody's future nor would it do anything for Mercedes if he wins, or even finishes at all.
Guiterrez even less.

I really don't think anybody at Mercedes would really get 'excited' about VanDoorne there.

Again, complete opposite with Russell there, especially for two GP's.

Let's face it: if Russell is able to win both GP's, he could finish P12 in the WDC standings, beating Ocon.
Otherwise, he'll likely finish plum last.

No matter whom Williams will keep in the Williams seat however, it's extremely, extremely unlikely by all means that whilst not even remotely being close to a point all season, they are going to be able to not only score points in the final GP's 'thanks to Russell being there', but also score atleast 4 points, and Haas make 0 points, to one-up them in the WCC standings.

Even if you'd have Palmer and Guiterrez in both Haas, with their engines turned down by 40%, and even if you'd have Verstappen and Hamilton or Leclerc in the Williams cars, points are given if you finish P10 upwards.

That means you not only have to 'benefit' from one potential weaker seat that would be 'fittipaldi' (whom i'd probably concider better than Latifi anyway), but they'd ALSO need to fairly BEAT 11 grid positions for TWO RACES to finish P9 in the WDC ranks. Let's face it, that won't happen.
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while also sending off 4 Hamilton players to make it more interesting"

Manoah2u
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Re: 2020 Sakhir Grand Prix - Sakhir, Dec 04 - 06

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Mogster wrote:
02 Dec 2020, 00:41
Big Tea wrote:
02 Dec 2020, 00:31
jjn9128 wrote:
01 Dec 2020, 23:36

Russell would also have to use Hamilton's engine/power unit allocation while whoever fills in for him gets his.



Seriously??? You think a team would just give away a driver to get a podium for another team without any financial recompense?!!!?
They (Williams) could make some cash by 'allowing' Nissany to drive, if he or his sponsor coughs up for it?
That and the experience for Russel would probably make it worth while for them as Russel will not only get lots of TV time for their sponsors, but will be worth more to them in the future (PR)
Nissany doesn’t have a superlicence.
That would spoil things a bit, but how did he do practice in F1 if he doesn't have SL?
didn't you need to have a SL to be able to do practice nowadays?

Also i thought he was their official 'reserve driver'. How can a reserve driver not have a SL?
"Explain the ending to F1 in football terms"
"Hamilton was beating Verstappen 7-0, then the ref decided F%$& rules, next goal wins
while also sending off 4 Hamilton players to make it more interesting"

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: 2020 Sakhir Grand Prix - Sakhir, Dec 04 - 06

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Russell confirmed...













..... Just maybe
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Sieper
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Re: 2020 Sakhir Grand Prix - Sakhir, Dec 04 - 06

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What if Russell gets the seat, which seems to be shaping up as likely, why would he not be able to win straight away. The Merc car is an absolute powerhouse this season. 2014 level. Max did it in similar circumstances against a team mate I rate higher than Bottas and with another team in the Mix. Allthough, in that case, the mercs were out of the mix it has to be said. But then again, those 2015 cars were much more difficult to drive. Much less grip and downforce.

I personally think it quite likely Russell could win. Is that good for Hamilton? Would merc take that into consideration?

Manoah2u
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Re: 2020 Sakhir Grand Prix - Sakhir, Dec 04 - 06

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
02 Dec 2020, 01:29
Russell confirmed...













..... Just maybe
you just made me a very excited and happy man only to discover the final line :cry: well played, well played.
"Explain the ending to F1 in football terms"
"Hamilton was beating Verstappen 7-0, then the ref decided F%$& rules, next goal wins
while also sending off 4 Hamilton players to make it more interesting"

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nzjrs
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Re: 2020 Sakhir Grand Prix - Sakhir, Dec 04 - 06

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jjn9128 wrote:
02 Dec 2020, 00:42
siskue2005 wrote:
02 Dec 2020, 00:23
Seriously??? Not everything in the world is brought through financial recompense?!!!? Do you think this is a slave trade in 1800????!!??!?!

(p.s: just borrowing your exclamations and query marks.. without any financial recompense?!!!? :lol: )
You're just incredibly naive then. F1 is a business and the new owners will see Russell as the greater of their two assets
Indeed! Weird uncited slave trade comment ignored, the Mercedes drive is the most valuable thing in F1 next weekend. The new Williams owners seem more objective that the previous ones, no doubt they are on the phone with Toto bartering right now.

dtro
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Re: 2020 Sakhir Grand Prix - Sakhir, Dec 04 - 06

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matt_b wrote:
01 Dec 2020, 21:35
dtro wrote:
01 Dec 2020, 20:36
ringo wrote:
01 Dec 2020, 20:28
Bottas can win easily. I think he is experienced to know the value of seat time. And anybody going into that seat will have to absorb a lot very quickly. Russell is the best bet in terms of knowing how to race a mercedes engine and managing stints etc and even driving these WXX cars. So i tip Russel for the drive.
I think this will put some perspective in terms of how good Bottas is once Lewis shadow has lifted.
Russell needs this drive to at least get the points monkey off his back.
Bottas has had some pretty bad starts, maybe having Lewis being out of the car will improve that but it might be giving Hamilton too much credit with regards to altering Bottas' mindset.

If Bottas loses to whoever gets in Lewis' car what does that say about him?
Against Russell it wouldn't be the end of the world against Stoffel then that would be a shocker, Bottas would probably prefer Russell for that reason especially given his bad starts and general bad luck this season.
Losing to either of them would be quite the blow to Bottas' confidence for sure, which might be in a deep hole as is.

It will be interesting to see what either of them can do in a championship winning car, Russell with his points duck to break, and Stoffel in need of redemption after being unceremoniously dropped by McLaren.

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TAG
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Re: 2020 Sakhir Grand Prix - Sakhir, Dec 04 - 06

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Sieper wrote:
02 Dec 2020, 01:30
What if Russell gets the seat, which seems to be shaping up as likely, why would he not be able to win straight away. The Merc car is an absolute powerhouse this season. 2014 level. Max did it in similar circumstances against a team mate I rate higher than Bottas and with another team in the Mix. Allthough, in that case, the mercs were out of the mix it has to be said. But then again, those 2015 cars were much more difficult to drive. Much less grip and downforce.

I personally think it quite likely Russell could win. Is that good for Hamilton? Would merc take that into consideration?
How did Max do the rest of that and the subsequent year? You saying that winning one race would prove what? The only one who'd be under pressure to win Sunday would be Bottas.
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zibby43
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Re: 2020 Sakhir Grand Prix - Sakhir, Dec 04 - 06

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Just_a_fan wrote:
02 Dec 2020, 00:27
Manoah2u wrote:
02 Dec 2020, 00:20
Biggest chance yet for Max to get a win.
Great opportunity for Russell to shine (he's a qually beast so that's a good start), and beat Bottas.
I'm starting to warm to the thought of George and Max battling it out for the win. How much fun would that be? =D
2020 owes us some fun lol.

Thanks @siskue for answering my question re: points distribution.

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Zynerji
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Re: 2020 Sakhir Grand Prix - Sakhir, Dec 04 - 06

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I could honestly see Alonso calling Toto...

Would be epic.

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djos
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Re: 2020 Sakhir Grand Prix - Sakhir, Dec 04 - 06

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Zynerji wrote:
02 Dec 2020, 04:29
I could honestly see Alonso calling Toto...

Would be epic.
Now that would be fun! :mrgreen:
"In downforce we trust"

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PlatinumZealot
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Joined: 12 Jun 2008, 03:45

Re: 2020 Sakhir Grand Prix - Sakhir, Dec 04 - 06

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Sieper wrote:
02 Dec 2020, 01:30
What if Russell gets the seat, which seems to be shaping up as likely, why would he not be able to win straight away. The Merc car is an absolute powerhouse this season. 2014 level. Max did it in similar circumstances against a team mate I rate higher than Bottas and with another team in the Mix. Allthough, in that case, the mercs were out of the mix it has to be said. But then again, those 2015 cars were much more difficult to drive. Much less grip and downforce.

I personally think it quite likely Russell could win. Is that good for Hamilton? Would merc take that into consideration?
Possible.. Max won because Riccardo did an extra pitstop. Also the Bulls were easily second fastest with Merc out of tge picture and Ferrari no threat. This weekend the 2nd Mercedes driver will have the worse strategy ans he will be under threat from the RedBulls so it will be a much harder task but very possible that Russel could win...
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zibby43
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Re: 2020 Sakhir Grand Prix - Sakhir, Dec 04 - 06

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
02 Dec 2020, 04:51
Sieper wrote:
02 Dec 2020, 01:30
What if Russell gets the seat, which seems to be shaping up as likely, why would he not be able to win straight away. The Merc car is an absolute powerhouse this season. 2014 level. Max did it in similar circumstances against a team mate I rate higher than Bottas and with another team in the Mix. Allthough, in that case, the mercs were out of the mix it has to be said. But then again, those 2015 cars were much more difficult to drive. Much less grip and downforce.

I personally think it quite likely Russell could win. Is that good for Hamilton? Would merc take that into consideration?
Possible.. Max won because Riccardo did an extra pitstop. Also the Bulls were easily second fastest with Merc out of tge picture and Ferrari no threat. This weekend the 2nd Mercedes driver will have the worse strategy ans he will be under threat from the RedBulls so it will be a much harder task but very possible that Russel could win...
That day was the beginning of Danny Ric's Red Bull exit.

They put him on a 3-stopper while completely forgetting about traffic on a track that's difficult for overtaking.