2025 McLaren F1 Team

[90feet]

I can tell you that my arguments were the same as I was younger, but history doesn't pay your bills, as happened to McLaren in 2020. Williams is anyway irrelevant for many, many years now. As McLaren would be result-wise without the cap.

You guys are really massively underestimating the kind of budget McLaren had in previous years. They weren't at the top, sure, but they weren't far behind those top teams. The lack of sponsors on the car was a bit misleading; a big part of that decline was because Ron was inflexible about the deals he'd accept and would only sign sponsors who paid like it was 2007. Zak has solved that problem in large part by being willing to accept a lot of smaller deals.

Regardless, the idea that McLaren was chronically underfunded and had to be rescued by the budget cap is simply not correct. McLaren's turnaround is a result of putting the right people and the right leadership positions and more efficiently using the resources they had always had at their disposal.

I think you're the one who is overestimating the budget McLaren was working with. Once Honda departed, McLaren were struggling with severe financial issues. They were on the brink of bankruptcy in 2020

Can you think of anything else that happened in 2020 that might've been responsible for that?

The idea that McLaren had to be rescued by the budget cap is completely and totally made up and that is not debatable. I have literally never heard this asserted anywhere other than in this thread. Perhaps you guys need to peek outside of your bubble.

[Bill]

mclaren sold their hq in 2021 thats all you need to know

[90feet]

Most companies don't actually own their headquarters. Thinking that sale is inherently unusual is exactly what I mean about getting out of your bubble. You don't know what you don't know.

p.s. McLaren is a car company too

[Bill]

but when they sold it was about injecting liquidity into their operation.its the blindfans that think their team its all great and wonderful and has no problem.

[90feet]

It was about injecting liquidity into the car company, Bill, because it was the pandemic and they couldn't sell cars. This isn't about F1. Remove yourself from your bubble, for the love of god. "Blind fans" have nothing to do with this. You simply have no clue what you're talking about and refuse to learn.

[emp]

Some people really need a reality check and stop believing that what they think it's the truth. Internet helps with both if you possess critical thinking:

"We've come from the brink of insolvency to five race wins, second most podiums consecutively in the history of McLaren, gone down to the last race against Ferrari and beaten Red Bull and Mercedes.

"If you'd told me at the beginning of 2023, I'd have bit your hand off."

https://www.espn.com/f1/story/_/id/4283 ... tting-2020

[90feet]

The claim that McLaren was rescued by the budget cap has been completely and totally made up by the posters in this thread. If you can find a source that specifically states otherwise, I'd be happy to admit I'm wrong, but otherwise I expect the topic to be dropped. It is not true.

[Emag]

You guys are really massively underestimating the kind of budget McLaren had in previous years. They weren't at the top, sure, but they weren't far behind those top teams. The lack of sponsors on the car was a bit misleading; a big part of that decline was because Ron was inflexible about the deals he'd accept and would only sign sponsors who paid like it was 2007. Zak has solved that problem in large part by being willing to accept a lot of smaller deals.

Regardless, the idea that McLaren was chronically underfunded and had to be rescued by the budget cap is simply not correct. McLaren's turnaround is a result of putting the right people and the right leadership positions and more efficiently using the resources they had always had at their disposal.

I think you're the one who is overestimating the budget McLaren was working with. Once Honda departed, McLaren were struggling with severe financial issues. They were on the brink of bankruptcy in 2020

Can you think of anything else that happened in 2020 that might've been responsible for that?

The idea that McLaren had to be rescued by the budget cap is completely and totally made up and that is not debatable. I have literally never heard this asserted anywhere other than in this thread. Perhaps you guys need to peek outside of your bubble.

Brother, all the comments Zak made about liquidating assets was just PR bullshit. They were on deep financial struggles and he had to try and maintain a positive public image during those dark years.

McLaren needed several injections from the Bahrain fund to remain operational. Their automotive business has been bleeding money for a long time.

It was no secret that McLaren was struggling for money. I am actually not quite sure why you think it’s the opposite?

Every major financial decision made from the McLaren group in the last decade screams financial struggles.

On top of that, Zak himself has publicly accepted now that they were on the brink of shutting the factory down. Why do you think we are fabricating claims?

[mwillems]

It was about injecting liquidity into the car company, Bill, because it was the pandemic and they couldn't sell cars. This isn't about F1. Remove yourself from your bubble, for the love of god. "Blind fans" have nothing to do with this. You simply have no clue what you're talking about and refuse to learn.

The shareholders needed money to support the group. They only had so much money to support the group so the owners had to sell off the HQ so the group could survive. The owners had limited funds of their own to inject which they were able to use to save F1 operation because the HQ sale funded the automotive section, the two are very much connected.

[90feet]

I didn't say McLaren wasn't struggling for money. I said, very specifically, that 1. their race team budgets were still higher than you seem to think, and 2. they were not rescued by the budget cap. Both of these are objective facts. Drop it.

[90feet]

It was about injecting liquidity into the car company, Bill, because it was the pandemic and they couldn't sell cars. This isn't about F1. Remove yourself from your bubble, for the love of god. "Blind fans" have nothing to do with this. You simply have no clue what you're talking about and refuse to learn.

The shareholders needed money to support the group. They only had so much money to support the group so the owners had to sell off the HQ so the group could survive. The owners had limited funds of their own to inject which they were able to use to save F1 operation because the HQ sale funded the automotive section, the two are very much connected.

The owners are the Kingdom of Bahrain. They do not have limited funds.

[mwillems]

It was about injecting liquidity into the car company, Bill, because it was the pandemic and they couldn't sell cars. This isn't about F1. Remove yourself from your bubble, for the love of god. "Blind fans" have nothing to do with this. You simply have no clue what you're talking about and refuse to learn.

The shareholders needed money to support the group. They only had so much money to support the group so the owners had to sell off the HQ so the group could survive. The owners had limited funds of their own to inject which they were able to use to save F1 operation because the HQ sale funded the automotive section, the two are very much connected.

The owners are the Kingdom of Bahrain. They do not have limited funds.

Nope, which is why they sold 33% of the team which they sure as hell wouldn't have done if they could help it.

https://thesportsrush.com/f1-news-zak-b ... employees/

Zak brown himself has said all this.

All of the accounts for Mclaren and Red Bull, numbers which I have posted, are available at companies house and are reported elsewhere. Even before COVID they'd lost £100m and were in a lot of debt relative to turnover.

They had no buffer when COVID hit, this is why they struggled.

[90feet]

The shareholders needed money to support the group. They only had so much money to support the group so the owners had to sell off the HQ so the group could survive. The owners had limited funds of their own to inject which they were able to use to save F1 operation because the HQ sale funded the automotive section, the two are very much connected.

The owners are the Kingdom of Bahrain. They do not have limited funds.

Nope, which is why they sold 33% of the team which they sure as hell wouldn't have done if they could help it.

https://thesportsrush.com/f1-news-zak-b ... employees/

Zak brown himself has said all this.

Yet another example of an F1 fan not knowing a damn thing about the real world and thus not understanding the nuance on why these financial moves are made. You don't have to learn, but at least stop running your mouth about things you don't understand.

[mwillems]

The owners are the Kingdom of Bahrain. They do not have limited funds.

Nope, which is why they sold 33% of the team which they sure as hell wouldn't have done if they could help it.

https://thesportsrush.com/f1-news-zak-b ... employees/

Zak brown himself has said all this.

Yet another example of an F1 fan not knowing a damn thing about the real world and thus not understanding the nuance on why these financial moves are made. You don't have to learn, but at least stop running your mouth about things you don't understand.

Zak Brown is not an ignorant F1 fan, he runs the team.

“I had to protect the team from seeing it, so that everyone could stay in the very positive, energetic mood they were in,” Brown added. At one point, the situation was so bad that Brown had to sell the team’s state-of-the-art headquarters for $237 million just to cover employee salaries.

Had they not received a financial injection in the form of MSP Sports Capital buying 33% of the team’s shares, Brown is unsure if they would have survived. However, he remained confident that the team’s shareholders would never have allowed it to go bankrupt, although he admitted that “it was not a pleasant situation.”

[mwillems]

And I actually went through 6 years of the companies accounts, so I did my research well enough to know that Zak is not misrepresenting things even if for some odd reason you can't take his word for it.