McLaren MP4-12C

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marcush.
marcush.
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Joined: 09 Mar 2004, 16:55

Re: McLaren MP4-12C

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the elise honda swap is really a old hat ....and I did this years ago for a guy who thought it was a good idea .
It certainly was not and i told him so,but then what do we do for money..

it was the b20 then ok ,but k hondas in elises also have a history of years ..i last worked on a lotus elise about 4 years ago...so..
my idea always was the K -serie rover was the thing to have -judd did a 2litre version that was awesome -280 hp ,won BTCC title powering MG limos .. against honda
and vauxhall.. so not that bad...

today lotus has toyota engines or old Opel vauxhall stuff (turbo engine),I doubt the swap to honda would reap any benefit ,it is heavy compared to the toyota and the VVC
1.8 litre with blower is not bad at all.
a possible alternative would be to use the vauxhall speedster as a base with the
na ecotec engine ...wich was also BTCC some good development potential and it is
a quite easy swap in later elises ..with the honda ...the driveshaft issue is one
and the ecu and wiring another.. complete with emissions btw..new car laws etc..

the ecotec engine was also sold in usa saturn ,chevy etc ...and the base engine is also used in pontiac solstice and new opel GT as direct injection .. but to perform this conversion hats off to the guy doing this ..i found out that electronics is the main problem area ,all the mechanical stuff is engineering and costly but without a ETK -and loads of money7recources to adapt the Engine management system youz will end up with ...well a expensive exercise .
ah and btw the guy who really needed the honda lump in his elise ...it took us
a very long time to get back to the lap times he was used to before the conversion.
power is everything.... :shock: ..it was not done with a spring change to accomodate the increased rear weight...far from it.

Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
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Joined: 31 Jan 2010, 20:37

Re: McLaren MP4-12C

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autogyro wrote:a poor Lotus copy from McLaren at four times the price.
A Lotus copy? What Lotus are they copying? I doubt McLaren will produce anything as unreliable as Lotus has historically produced...
If you are more fortunate than others, build a larger table not a taller fence.

JohnsonEvilTwin
JohnsonEvilTwin
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Joined: 29 Jan 2010, 11:38

Re: McLaren MP4-12C

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Marcus

The F20C honda is a racebred engine, 1998cc 4cyl 16 valve with between 238-245 BHP standard.
Its not an ordinary honda 4, and honda make some very special 4s.
The reason I wanted it is because you cna really gun this thing to 9250rpm all day long. And that gear change is just magnificent in comparison to anything i have ever driven.

My issue it this, The S2000 is actually a mid engined sports car. It appears front engined but the engine is well back of the front axle.
But the layout is front engine/then transmission/then driving the rear wheels.

The elise has its engine mounted behind the driver. So how would that play using an F20C engine? The transmission would be difficult to implement but I think its a penalty worth paying if indeed it is possible.
The F20C is, by all accounts, also lightweight. And there is astronomical potential when you consider the G35 Turbo conversion for these things.

On topic, Im dissapointed in the styling of the MP4-12C, but when you look at the numbers this thing does, it really is irellevant. Just mind boggling.....
"In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and is widely regarded as a bad move." Adams

marcush.
marcush.
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Joined: 09 Mar 2004, 16:55

Re: McLaren MP4-12C

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thge F20 c is the longitudinal version of the K20 engine and shares to all of my knowledge a lot of parts with those.
the longitudinal layout will give you some headache when shoehorning the thing into a elise, so the fueltank will possibly need a mayor redress ..and what abot transmission?
If you have the ideao for a outboard gearbox forget this with the elise.. the weight of the gearcluster behind the rear axle will do more harm then good ...so which gearbox may be suitable then ? perhaps the drexler F3 box or Ralts old box which was very compact?..yes it can be done,sure .
But then where mount the engine to the tub ?
The elise has really NO structure in the area of the firewall where the Fueltank is ...it is basically a glassfibre panel bonded on top of the fueltank housing wich is a 1mm flat aluminium fold .Only on the very bottom you got that crossmember /aluminium extrusion where the forward mounting ponzts of the lower wishbones are bolted on and this is connected to the rest by a again thin thin thin shearplate that is closing sort of the tank compartment from beneath.. So ...to get in the 4 cylinder engine you will have to cut this crossmember and
get back the stiffness somehow..in a few minutes you will start to build a new tub.
I would. No i would stop right there and then.Too much really.

you could of course take a deep look into the GT3 lotus or how it is called..they stretched the thing and put in ... i do not remember what a V6 ? not a elise anymore but then ,who cares? the car was 2005 correct name Lotus Sport Exige


http://www.gglotus.org/ggrace/exigesport/exige5.jpg

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JohnsonsEvilTwin
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Re: McLaren MP4-12C

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Marcush

I thought the F and H series replaced the K??????

Either way the more i play with number the more it seems i should just bolt a turbo on to the standard engine or boost pressure:(

Is the Mp4-12C's engine designed by Ricardo? Or is it Mahle????
More could have been done.
David Purley

Giblet
Giblet
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Joined: 19 Mar 2007, 01:47
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Re: McLaren MP4-12C

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Is there any way for you guys to stay on topic in at least one thread?
Before I do anything I ask myself “Would an idiot do that?” And if the answer is yes, I do not do that thing. - Dwight Schrute

marcush.
marcush.
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Joined: 09 Mar 2004, 16:55

Re: McLaren MP4-12C

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oops .sorry ..
johnsonseviltwin you got a pm!

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JohnsonsEvilTwin
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Joined: 29 Jan 2010, 11:51
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Re: McLaren MP4-12C

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Giblet wrote:Is there any way for you guys to stay on topic in at least one thread?
Master Giblet I refer you to my foot post keeping post on topic! :D
More could have been done.
David Purley

thestig84
thestig84
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Re: McLaren MP4-12C

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JohnsonsEvilTwin wrote:Marcush

Is the Mp4-12C's engine designed by Ricardo? Or is it Mahle????
Ricardo!

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JohnsonsEvilTwin
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Re: McLaren MP4-12C

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Thank you Stig.

Seems a right power unit to me. Pushes more power than the SLS and 458 yet is alot lighter than either!
More could have been done.
David Purley

mx_tifoso
mx_tifoso
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Joined: 30 Nov 2006, 05:01
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Re: McLaren MP4-12C

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JohnsonsEvilTwin wrote:Thank you Stig.

Seems a right power unit to me. Pushes more power than the SLS and 458 yet is alot lighter than either!
Take the twin turbos off of the MP4-12C and let's see how much it puts out then.

I don't mean to discredit it but the engines achieve their outputs through very different ways and philosophies.


And all this Honda talk is blasphemy! :sick:
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JohnsonsEvilTwin
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Re: McLaren MP4-12C

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mx tifosi

Absolutly agree. A Turbo on mercs 6.2 litre V8 would be somthing!

And Honda talk blasphemy? uh uh [-X
Not the people who gave us the cheap free reving vtec! Not a turbo in sight!!! :lol:
More could have been done.
David Purley

lebesset
lebesset
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Joined: 06 Aug 2008, 14:00

I refuse to believe it !

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according to mike lawrence in pitpass , the McLaren F1 is 17 years old ...so that makes me ....I hate to think :(

actually it is a 'must read ' article for any fan imho ...not that I have my name down for an MP4-12C
to the optimist a glass is half full ; to the pessimist a glass is half empty ; to the F1 engineer the glass is twice as big as it needs to be

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JohnsonsEvilTwin
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Re: I refuse to believe it !

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This the same Mike Lawrence that has a vendetta against Mercedes?

Or quoted a Lord as saying Rosberg would go to Lotus in January to make way for Raikonnen?

Or said that Mercedes spent £80 million on engines in 2009 when it had been spent on KERS.

Or the fantastical finacial figures he made up of Mclarens financial figures.

Sure, it makes great reading like many classic comic books. But his accuracy deviates somewhat from the real to the fantastical in too short a space for my liking......
More could have been done.
David Purley

lebesset
lebesset
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Joined: 06 Aug 2008, 14:00

Re: I refuse to believe it !

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well , if this article is part of a vendetta against McL I would think any company would be thrilled to have him launch one against them

sure you aren't launching one against mike lawrence ?
to the optimist a glass is half full ; to the pessimist a glass is half empty ; to the F1 engineer the glass is twice as big as it needs to be