Technical Regulations for 2009-2015

[xpensive]

@ WB; 2.2 MJ, guess we should realize our bitching is read by influential people?

@ JAF; Indeed, good call, wonder who this "Flood 1" guy is anyway?

[piast9]

The 2.2 MJ figure for KERS sounds familiar to me. As our earlier figuring shows they would have no chance to collect anywhere near those figures without AWKERS.

This figuring assumed that such energy is to be collected during one lap which not necessarily is the idea of new rules.

[WhiteBlue]

@ WB; 2.2 MJ, guess we should realize our bitching is read by influential people?

Actually ESPImperium initially mentioned that they wanted to increase KERS energy five times. He heared it mentioned by a BBC commentator. I got curious and checked for the relevance of the figure. I realized it is approximately 10% of the engine work. This sounded reasonable to me. If you can recycle 10% of the engine work it might be worthwhile.

The 2.2 MJ figure for KERS sounds familiar to me. As our earlier figuring shows they would have no chance to collect anywhere near those figures without AWKERS.

This figuring assumed that such energy is to be collected during one lap which not necessarily is the idea of new rules.

If you are familiar with the discussion you know that KERS energy figures have always been quoted for one lap. I would be extremely surprised if it were not the case here.

[Professor]

@Professor

If you're just going to quote complete chunks of someone elses words how about identifying them as a quote? Anyone who didn't have the time to follow the link in your post would think that your post was your words not just a copy of someone's blog. [-X

I wrote the blog, it is mine. I could be guilty of self promotion, but I didn't copy anyone's work. Professor = Flood1

[timbo]

I wrote the blog, it is mine. I could be guilty of self promotion, but I didn't copy anyone's work. Professor = Flood1

So, where have you got 2.2MJ figure?

[Professor]

My work specialty is industrial electric motor controls. I have an associate who is a chemist involved in battery technologies. He does a little business with a supplier. He talks too much. I don't know if that is the number, but it makes sense to me so I thought I'd share it.

[Professor]

Speaking of batteries, one other thing I was told was that the batteries used by Macca last year were nanophosphate and produced by A123 Systems. Suppossedly 20kW per kilo.

[Just_a_fan]

I wrote the blog, it is mine. I could be guilty of self promotion, but I didn't copy anyone's work. Professor = Flood1

Ah. Ok. Now I look a tad silly...

[Professor]

No prob JaF, I should have made that clear.

[timbo]

Suppossedly 20kW per kilo.

So, 2200kW you quote is giving a nice 110kg)))

I doubt anybody would use that
Unless minimum weight limit would be 750kG or so.
F1 truck racing, yay!

[xpensive]

Suppossedly 20kW per kilo.

So, 2200kW you quote is giving a nice 110kg)))

I doubt anybody would use that
Unless minimum weight limit would be 750kG or so.
F1 truck racing, yay!

What are you guys really talking about, kW is power not energy, one kWs is the same as one kJ, but a kWh is 3.6 MJ?

A university professor should perhaps know the difference?

[timbo]

Suppossedly 20kW per kilo.

So, 2200kW you quote is giving a nice 110kg)))

I doubt anybody would use that
Unless minimum weight limit would be 750kG or so.
F1 truck racing, yay!

What are you guys really talking about, kW is power not energy, one kWs is the same as one kJ, but a kWh is 3.6 MJ?

A university professor should perhaps know the difference?

Oops)))
Have too long a day I guess as I certainly mixed two terms(((
However, it seems like the limitation for F1 application would be not energy density (which is rather high), put power density, or how fast can you charge and recharge the battery.

OTOH, Professor, where have you got 20kW per kilo quote? What I found is around 5-6 kW/kg.

[Professor]

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2009/07 ... ongress%29

20kW for one second. How many seconds you can use it is a different question. Total kJ is not mentioned.

[WhiteBlue]

We have already gone through the exercise of calculating the specs and found that the power peaks under breaking where you need approximately 200 kW. From that point of view battery weight should be 10 kg. But I doubt that power is the decisive design item for weight. I reckon it will be capacity. It would be good news if a 2.2 MJ battery would be available at 25-30 kg. It would be even better if they stop the stupid push to pass legislation and go to permanent dual torque. The battery would not have to be designed to hold the whole charge of one lap in that case.

[Professor]

A university professor should perhaps know the difference?

I love your constructive criticism. Thanks. I just quoted the source. 20kW is 20 kW. On that point I think we can agree. And, I didn't know Timbo was a University Professor.

OTOH, Professor, where have you got 20kW per kilo quote? What I found is around 5-6 kW/kg.

Timbo, I quoted my source, perhaps you can share your source will us as well. I do not have an agenda, I just share what I read. If the guy, a cofounder of the company, is misinformed, then so am I.

I will quote my source again. Please add yours. Thanks.

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2009/07 ... ongress%29