Ferrari F2012

[hardingfv32]

I know you're going to try every angle you can to try to poke holes in this idea, and that's fine. But, you're not getting it. The floor IS the battery. That's the only way in which its construction would differ from any other car.

A plank MUST be mounted to the bottom of the floor WITH no gaps. This would be between the bottom of the chassis and the track surface. A battery can NOT meet the material specification required for the plank.

Brian

[bhall]

And what if the floor is the KERS battery?

Surely we do not need more 'mercury suspension' type speculation? As most cars are blowing the floor, it would be utter madness to place KERS batteries in the floor.
As far as I am aware, there is no technology at present that would allow the creation of a razor thin battery pack. You might as well suggest that the KERS batteries are used as wheels.

You obviously didn't read the link in my statement that you quoted.

[Hail22]

And what if the floor is the KERS battery?

Surely we do not need more 'mercury suspension' type speculation? As most cars are blowing the floor, it would be utter madness to place KERS batteries in the floor.
As far as I am aware, there is no technology at present that would allow the creation of a razor thin battery pack. You might as well suggest that the KERS batteries are used as wheels.

Incorrect...Polymer Batteries are real and are less than 1mm thick, they can hold significant amounts of energy per square meter, so technically it is achievable and in fact very light

[mcjamweasel]

As far as I am aware, there is no technology at present that would allow the creation of a razor thin battery pack. You might as well suggest that the KERS batteries are used as wheels.

You've not heard about BAE's structural batteries then? It's really not all that far fetched an idea.

http://joesaward.wordpress.com/2012/02/ ... batteries/

[bhall]

I know you're going to try every angle you can to try to poke holes in this idea, and that's fine. But, you're not getting it. The floor IS the battery. That's the only way in which its construction would differ from any other car.

I am not going to stop you from believing your nonsense...

For those who wish for a discussion grounded in what the current rules allow;

A plank MUST be mounted to the bottom of the floor WITH no gaps. This would be between the bottom of the chassis and the track surface. A battery can NOT meet the material specification required for the plank.

Brian

Are you daft? What part of THE FLOOR IS THE BATTERY do you not understand?

If this concept is illegal, then every team on the grid is running illegal cars, because the only difference between my idea and conventional practice is the composition of the floors.

[hardingfv32]

[Incorrect...Polymer Batteries are real and are less than 1mm thick, they can hold significant amounts of energy per square meter, so technically it is achievable and in fact very light ;)

Are they good for the high discharge and recharge rates we are talking about. These batteries all have their advantages and disadvantages.

Brian

[Hail22]

[Incorrect...Polymer Batteries are real and are less than 1mm thick, they can hold significant amounts of energy per square meter, so technically it is achievable and in fact very light

Are they good for the high discharge and recharge rates we are talking about. These batteries all have their advantages and disadvantages.

Brian

How about you read about it before your next post Brian, my advice is if your not willing to see the blogs for "Structual Battery sources" your merely wasting the time of people who are actually taking a very keen look in this technology.

Polymer is the now "Lithium Cell" created by plastic composites first invented by Samsung/Sony Corp.

Structual Batteries: http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1073 ... -batteries

[hardingfv32]

[If this concept is......

So are you implying no effort to gain cooling effect?

If so then you are only after a lower CG?

What know battery chemistry is going accomplish this and meet the KERS requirements?

It would be a like beyond even Fiat's capabilities to develop such a battery.

Brian

[alogoc]

Peltier plates?

[Pup]

My issue would be with the batteries themselves. They're not one unit, but many smaller cells in series, and I think that they're replaced regularly. So, I could see that the floor could contain the batteries, but that's not too different from where we are now. Forgive me if that's been discussed - jumping in mid-stream and all.

[Hail22]

Peltier plates?

Its a possible variable considering they are thermo condensed plates hence there would be no need for large scale cooling, the question is however the plating is a ceramide coating which can be quite heavy for such a large scale body (such as the floor of a Formula 1 car).

Knowing Byrne with a Chemistry background and as well as his engineering knowledge he has options at his disposal...

[bhall]

My issue would be with the batteries themselves. They're not one unit, but many smaller cells in series, and I think that they're replaced regularly. So, I could see that the floor could contain the batteries, but that's not too different from where we are now. Forgive me if that's been discussed - jumping in mid-stream and all.

No, you're good. I think the surface area of the floor would provide enough capacity for current KERS power levels.

[alogoc]

i am not very technical but that puts a lot of rumors together whit problems Ferrari were experiencing in firs two tests!

[Hush]

You don't want to spread the weight around the floor. You achieve optimal vehicle dynamics with weight being placed as low and as centrally as possible.

That part makes this idea a compromise if the battery floor is significantly heavier than a standard CF floor.

If you are going to add weight to a race car, ideally you want the weight placed below the centre of gravity.

In our case here the ideal place would actually be the plank. I seem to recall teams going as far as putting metal in the wooden planks because it was as low as you can go. Spreading the weight over a length will also aid dive and squat under braking and acceleration as well as roll under lateral load when cornering.

Having the weight as low down and as spread as possible (obviously in the correct places) can only be a good thing.

[bhall]

Indeed, but I don't know about the viability of putting a battery directly below an engine operating at 18,000 RPM. Perhaps it could be done. I just don't know.