Technical Regulations for 2009-2015

[wesley123]

well, that ruling hangs if im correct on one thing, if the whole FOTA voted for an DDD ban(same for F-Duct) If so the rule would be implemented for next year, if not(an majority of votes) it would be discussed for over 2 years and with an minority it would be rejected anyway. I thought the BBC said that on some gp coverage. My assumption is that if it wouldnt be disallwoed for next year it would be legal for the year after too, as in 2013 the new rules come

[WhiteBlue]

http://www.fia.com/en-GB/mediacentre/pr ... _0210.aspx

There is actually a WMSC decision from 2.2.2010. So you can take it to the bank that DDDs will be banned.

2011 FIA Formula One World Championship

- Diffusers

The permitted height of the main diffuser was reduced from 175mm to 125mm and measures to exclude ‘double’ diffusers were agreed.

[godlameroso]

This is ridiculous, road cars will have bigger diffusers if this goes through. Expect to see next years cars be no faster than the new teams are this year.

[wesley123]

I just have to agree. For example the DDD and F-Duct are incredible pieces of engineering and thought, too bad that that will be lost, just because some teams cannot seem to handle it well.

I would love to see in how far it is outlawed, After reading that the Double floor which was pioneered on the F92A makes much more sense, I think that if done correctly the higher CofG is just an small downside.

[WhiteBlue]

This is ridiculous

LOL, this has been ridiculous for the last twenty years. They are changing the bloody aero boxes around to limit downforce supposedly. All they achieve is another useless geometric configuration which gets optimized for a collective spend of one billion $$ per annum. Why do you complain now? The madness has become systematic.

[Pingguest]

What solution do you propose, WB?

[gibells]

Well yes and no. In my opinion the DDD was what stopped the cars struggling for grip at the start of 2009. And that struggle for grip, in my opinion, is what makes for better racing and overtaking.

So I see 2011 as very much the development of 2009 with KERS back, except now KERS has a better chance thanks to the weight increases giving away less of a penalty. <add no refueling to that>.

[WhiteBlue]

What solution do you propose, WB?

The solution is simple. Limit downforce to 1.25 tons or even less and produce it mainly from the floor. Use small and flat wings like the Monza spec for stability and fine tuning only.

It is very simple for a modern on board computer to measure the vertical force at each wheel and compensate for inertial force by an accelerometer. Give a tolerance of 5%. If this is entered you get a warning. If you have three warnings the car must come in and have the downforce setup changed. If the tolerance is exceeded a car gets black flagged.

You can even have computer control of the wings to limit downforce dynamically if you prefer that.

With limited downforce teams will focus on reducing drag and overtaking will rapidly improve. The 1.25 ton downforce limit was already written in a rule proposal by the FiA in 2006. It was in principle accepted by the teams as a sensible target but they wanted to continue with geometric restrictions and founded the OWG. Only that the OWG result back fired badly with the DDD loop hole.

So why don't they simply go back to plan A which would work? Because the leading tech gurus are aerodynamicists and they want to continue to play the boxes game indefinitely to conserve their superiority.

[wesley123]

Actually what they are doing is just in contrast to each other. I mean, they want to aid overtaking but at the same time make mechanical grip more important. For overtaking you are most likely to run on the diry side of the track and then you lose alot of grip due to the dirt, with less downforce this becomes even harder, so imo more downforce will make running on the dirty sides much easier thus overtaking is easier.

IMO an idea i just like is an DF limit and an horsepower/torque limit and then let the teams decide how to reach that level, by that way we will see alot of difference in cars and engines which the fans would certainly like. I mean, the fans are watching F1 with different cars, if they wanted to see 24 similair cars they would have bought an ticket for indycars, which is apart from more spectacular also much cheaper, even with an flight ticket.

[agip]

Downforce levels should be keeped. That's what makes F1 unique from the other racing series. They just need to reduce drag a LOT. So less turbulence + nose to tail races = more overtaking. The only way I see to do this, is by introducing ground-effect.

[wesley123]

and that is what will be introduced in 2013.

[gibells]

Motorsport link:

http://www.motorsport.com/news/article.asp?ID=393109

Based on this assessment, could we deduce that the World Engine, or at least turbo-charged I4, has been vetoed by FOTA? As far as I am aware, the likes of Ferrari and Mercedes were not too keen, as you could well understand.

[CMSMJ1]

Good, if that is the case.

Spec and mandated IL4 bangers have no place in F1.

[NormanBates]

Downforce levels should be keeped. That's what makes F1 unique from the other racing series. They just need to reduce drag a LOT. So less turbulence + nose to tail races = more overtaking.

I also think that is the final aim, so why not stop trying to achieve it indirectly and tackle it in the most direct way possible?

I'd propose something like:
* take a wind tunnel capable of working with two 100% size cars and label it "the official one"
* take the winning car of each season
* set your proposed design in the official wind tunnel, and last year's winner right 2m behind it
* your design is valid if:
- it is deemed safe
- the tracking car shows XXX tonnes of downforce or more

the main issue this would raise is that each package should have to be tested before it can be used at a race, thus delaying the introduction of design innovations, but, still, it may be worth it

(maybe having a permanent FIA ambassador at each manufacturer's reduced-scale wind tunnel instead of using a single official wind tunnel can iron out this problem)

[godlameroso]

Does wake affect air travelling underneath the car as well?