Mercedes AMG F1 W04

[Pandabeer]

Yea, Rosberg is always pretty optimistic, that's true. But he confirms what a lot of people noticed - way more rear and overall DF. So nothing really new, but i like how he kind of says that the car sticks to the track.

[Neno]

Yea, Rosberg is always pretty optimistic, that's true. But he confirms what a lot of people noticed - way more rear and overall DF. So nothing really new, but i like how he kind of says that the car sticks to the track.

If they didnt have more rear, and overall DF, they could easly take one year vacation and focus in 2014 car. So i am not suprised they have more downforce overall, bigger susprise would be if they wouldnt have it, specialy in this stable regulations....

[Ferraripilot]

Yea, Rosberg is always pretty optimistic, that's true. But he confirms what a lot of people noticed - way more rear and overall DF. So nothing really new, but i like how he kind of says that the car sticks to the track.

WHere are you guys getting that Rosberg is optimistic? The most I ever hear him say is, "we have made a step" or some other very whitewashed comment. Specific optimism from him has been gray at best.

[Pandabeer]

Yea, Rosberg is always pretty optimistic, that's true. But he confirms what a lot of people noticed - way more rear and overall DF. So nothing really new, but i like how he kind of says that the car sticks to the track.

WHere are you guys getting that Rosberg is optimistic? The most I ever hear him say is, "we have made a step" or some other very whitewashed comment. Specific optimism from him has been gray at best.

Hm. Rosberg is saying "the car is a giant step forward"... "we have a lot more DF compared to 2012, the car is sticking to the track". He is also sure that Mercedes won't fail on developing the car over the season this year, like they did 2012. Rosberg: "we now have more competent people working together" [---] "it is better in any case".

For me, he is quite optimistic for 2013.

[beelsebob]

Yea, Rosberg is always pretty optimistic, that's true. But he confirms what a lot of people noticed - way more rear and overall DF. So nothing really new, but i like how he kind of says that the car sticks to the track.

WHere are you guys getting that Rosberg is optimistic? The most I ever hear him say is, "we have made a step" or some other very whitewashed comment. Specific optimism from him has been gray at best.

Hm. Rosberg is saying "the car is a giant step forward"... "we have a lot more DF compared to 2012, the car is sticking to the track".

I think you're answering the wrong question. Unless I missinterpretted Ferraripilot, he was asking where people had the understanding that Rosberg's optimism could be dismissed safely because he's generally optimistic as a norm.

[Pandabeer]

Ah, now i see. Yea, did read that wrong. Nevermind then.

[PlatinumZealot]

He is though. Coming of the back of the win in China 2012, he seemed pretty chuffed that he could fight for the Championship. Whether it was a case of over-optimism or simple delusions brought on by the early season speed of the car no one will know.

[beelsebob]

He is though. Coming of the back of the win in China 2012, he seemed pretty chuffed that he could fight for the Championship. Whether it was a case of over-optimism or simple delusions brought on by the early season speed of the car no one will know.

To be honest – having been landed with a car that could clearly win, and having no knowledge of the fact that Merc would drop the development ball, I would have been optimistic then too.

[NathanOlder]

Yeah, going from 0.4 off pole in Oz, to 0.150 in Malaysia to being on Pole (and eventually a front row lock out) in China and going on to win the race. I think every driver on the grid would be very optimistic!

I'd say Rosberg isnt always optimistic, I think its more of a case that he is always smiling and looking happy. Giving the impression he is optimistic.

[Artur Craft]

Of course it is guessing from our part. We are a technical forum, but we don't have any data on it. Teams always have run a bit rake, as it is beneficial. The problem though is that if you run too much you'll get tyre squirt and airflow from the sides of the car interfering with the airflow coming from underneath the car, removing downforce instead of adding to it. In the "ground effect" era they indeed had the best solution, running skirts. That is forbidden and so with no bodywork allowed teams have to rely on the exhaust gasses, not an optimal solution at all, but they take what they have. I know you know all of this, but I think the exhaust gasses play a more prominent role to get more downforce. Teams are looking to extract the maximum out of difficult placed exhausts; I believe the more they can extract and can get under the floor, the higher the optical point lies of optimal rake. Of course I am basing this on pure reasoning; I would even piss off Briatore in order to get a hand onto the data.

And your reasoning makes perfect sense, at least to me as well.

I think we'll have the opportunity to know if W04 really got some good downforce on it when the season starts and we are able to compare it's speed through mid/high speed corners with other cars

In Melbourne, S3 have lots of those corners and is a place to look up for and compare also with speed trap to estimate how's the downforce/drag ratio doing

If W04 have a good S3 whilst still keeping a quite high speed trap, then it will indicate a very good C/D

[jenseneverest]

Of course it is guessing from our part. We are a technical forum, but we don't have any data on it. Teams always have run a bit rake, as it is beneficial. The problem though is that if you run too much you'll get tyre squirt and airflow from the sides of the car interfering with the airflow coming from underneath the car, removing downforce instead of adding to it. In the "ground effect" era they indeed had the best solution, running skirts. That is forbidden and so with no bodywork allowed teams have to rely on the exhaust gasses, not an optimal solution at all, but they take what they have. I know you know all of this, but I think the exhaust gasses play a more prominent role to get more downforce. Teams are looking to extract the maximum out of difficult placed exhausts; I believe the more they can extract and can get under the floor, the higher the optical point lies of optimal rake. Of course I am basing this on pure reasoning; I would even piss off Briatore in order to get a hand onto the data.

And your reasoning makes perfect sense, at least to me as well.

I think we'll have the opportunity to know if W04 really got some good downforce on it when the season starts and we are able to compare it's speed through mid/high speed corners with other cars

In Melbourne, S3 have lots of those corners and is a place to look up for and compare also with speed trap to estimate how's the downforce/drag ratio doing

If W04 have a good S3 whilst still keeping a quite high speed trap, then it will indicate a very good C/D

This will all depend on getting their suspension working. Recent pics on the W04 suspension under load through high speed corners is great. (with ref to Ted's technical chat on sky)
I cant remember the last time i saw an F1 car so close to the ground.
Australia is not a good track for comparsion, it is very bumpy around the street circuit. Cars offen ground out if not set up correctly.........
Most of last years long run issues were the rear tyres overheating. Hopefully this is sorted with the new exhast, and pull rod set up at the rear, and the DDRS is gone....... Car now looking great on corner exit's.
Expect to see a new Front and Rear wings in Aussie. Thus far the aero package has been very simple and lets not forget that Merc has now assembled one of the best Aero teams in the paddock... bar the living ledgend of Mr Newey.

[Ferraripilot]

Front wings, rear wings etc don't so much concern me as much as the RB9 brake ducts do. The upper element to the RB9 brake duct just over the upper control arm pickup point MUST be copied by other teams, until then no one will touch RB9. That element is about half or more the surface area of a beam wing and no one else is running anything like it. Season is over until that is copied.

W04 may have a wild card with its mechanical grip advantage, but otherwise we and everyone else are whistling in the wind while RB9 has those mesmerizing brake ducts.

[Anon123]

Jonathan Noble on The F1 Show said that the W04 definitely has the speed after speaking with people from other top teams but he said that Grosjean did a 24 lap stint on the medium tyre with pretty much zero degradation. Just think a week from now and we will know just how good the W04 is.

[mantikos]

Front wings, rear wings etc don't so much concern me as much as the RB9 brake ducts do. The upper element to the RB9 brake duct just over the upper control arm pickup point MUST be copied by other teams, until then no one will touch RB9. That element is about half or more the surface area of a beam wing and no one else is running anything like it. Season is over until that is copied.

W04 may have a wild card with its mechanical grip advantage, but otherwise we and everyone else are whistling in the wind while RB9 has those mesmerizing brake ducts.

It is impossible for one brake duct or 2 to make such a huge difference...it could certainly help...but its not as dire as you are making it out to be.

[PlatinumZealot]

Front wings, rear wings etc don't so much concern me as much as the RB9 brake ducts do. The upper element to the RB9 brake duct just over the upper control arm pickup point MUST be copied by other teams, until then no one will touch RB9. That element is about half or more the surface area of a beam wing and no one else is running anything like it. Season is over until that is copied.

W04 may have a wild card with its mechanical grip advantage, but otherwise we and everyone else are whistling in the wind while RB9 has those mesmerizing brake ducts.

+11ty million!

It beats me why other teams have not copied this... Its just a free area to have a huge freaking wing disguised as a brake duct mounted DIRECTLY over the rear wheels. If that it is not free downforce I do not know what is.