McLaren P1

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SectorOne
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Re: McLaren P1

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P.S. wrote:But If you look your wiki link closely it defends my statement. To get a nice 0-62 time you need AWD or in case of the Atom RW combined with a CG near the powered wheels. Like a drag racer is designed.
No you don´t. You just need a very good car. The Agera R is no Ariel Atom and it breaks 3 seconds.
The Gumpert Apollo breaks 3 seconds. KTM X-bow, same.
Huayra is on the limit, 918 spyder same, F12 Berlinetta same.

It´s about how you put the power down that´s key. 4WD is better but it does not mean RWD can´t break the 3s marker.
P.S. wrote:In direct comparison you can see my criticism this way. With the GTR you get the factory number pretty easy. Getting a car with RW drive under 3 seconds is a challenge and mostly a theoretical value.
No it´s not. RWD cars goes under the same identical scrutiny 4WD cars do.
In fact alot of car manufacturers, particularly BMW actually lies about their numbers.
But not in the bad direction, the good direction where it performs better then numbers suggest.

P.S. wrote:And explaining my harsh rear wing comment: Estimating the size and lift coefficient by comparing it with known performances of such wings, you can be pretty sure the 600 kg (kg isn´t a force by the way) value will just be reached close of the cars top speed. And the top speed can´t get reached with a raised wing. But this also is based on assumption, so I shut up.
It´s 600kg at 150mph. The top speed will be reached with a DRS button. Top speed is 217mph not 150.
I get the feeling you haven´t really read about the car at all when you write that sort of thing.

P.S. wrote:Don´t understand me wrong, I really like the P1 and I´m looking forward to see it at top gear etc. When Mr. Clarkson is so much in love with it, it must be awesome. But especially when Porsche just published a real 6:57 and McLaren showing a 6:33, they gambling credits. Just my 2 cents.
Again it´s clear you haven´t paid attention, not even to this thread.
The image in question was included on a slide which was part of a mood board to inspire the design team for the McLaren P1™, and not the engineers,
Engineers have maintained a sub-7 laptime. If rumors are true they have done just that.
"If the only thing keeping a person decent is the expectation of divine reward, then brother that person is a piece of sh*t"

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SectorOne
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Interesting thoughts from an owner getting rides around the Top Gear test track.
Hi everyone..

while Andy, Mikey and the rest are still likely on their way to dinner or at McLaren GT, I'll just post a few words, the others I am sure will post pics, possibly a video...

Quick rundown... I went to the MTC first where I met a bunch of very nice people from McLaren, as always.. but also met Andy for the first time.

We did the MTC Tour, great as always and talked a lot about all the cars and other aspects of McLaren... The P1 production line is looking good. There were 7 P1s finished waiting for delivery and 3 more or so right before finishing.

Production is being still ramped up.

As we have heard from multiple other sources, all 375 cars are sold. There actually are waiting lists in multiple regions in case people drop out. But the last 6 weeks have really been great for McLaren and a lot of people that were on the fence, have gone for it finally.

I did try to tease them into telling us a 'Ring time, but even there, they would not budge. They simply said, all their goals that they set out for when they envisioned the car, they met. Which I guess is most important, so we know it is sub-7 around the Ring, but how much exactly, who cares in the end.

I think we can be sure (and if needed, I will help) that the car will be tested around various tracks to see how it performs to other similar cars...

Which brings us to the most important part, the Dunsfold track test. We left MTC towards Dunsfold and arrived shortly after. XP7 and PP3 were both waiting for us right there and Chris Goodwin welcomed us.

After a brief introduction for the day, Andy and Mikey went out for a drive first together with two test drivers of McLaren Automotive that both know the P1 very well.

Everyone's turn was similar: Do a few laps on the Top Gear Track in various driving modes, N, S, T. Switch to E-Mode in the middle of driving to just feel the difference of just the electric propelling the car still quite nicely. Then back to the start, for a switch into Race Mode, in which we just did runs up and down the runway, to not get tempted to track the car in full speed around the circuit with so little testing before and to truly feel the power this monster has.

When it was my turn, I took the car for a relatively calm spin to really feel and look closely to certain aspects of the systems it has. And as I mentioned before, I was not really feeling comfortable pushing either of these two cars to my limits...

On the runway, in race mode, this was obviously slightly different. Full throttle is staggering in this car and it does not stop. I did not feel any true slowdown or any kind of turbo lag anywhere from 0 to 275kph which is at fast as we got it on the runway stretch, in seconds... And the brakes, consistantly the same braking cold or after a few turns, no difference, no blocking, very very comfortable but strong brakes and the car stays flat, does not move an inch roll wise. It is amazing.

After us all taking them for a spin, we did passenger rides of 2 laps around the top gear track each, to see how these cars really can perform. And god do they perform. Nothing I have ever experienced got close to this speed and precision you felt in these cars.
I did a few laps in full race cars in the past months with racing drivers and albeit the feeling is similar, the P1 blew them all away.

I can guarantee, I do not regret ordering this monster and trusting McLaren that they will deliver on their promises, and for me they have.
Although this one is very interesting, regarding the batteries.
Two VERY important things regarding the Hybrid drive that I have learned this trip:

The P1 can regen in all kinds of situations, even in full throttle scenarios. I will not go into details, since I tried explaining things here many times and most people ignore it anyway or do not understand it fully. I had a good long chat with one of the main hybrid tech guys (Andy was present) and what he explained made perfect sense. (And made even more sense after talking a little with Chris about it too.)

Trust me and accept when I tell you, it all makes sense. The Hybrid regen system they have developed is staggeringly good. It regens battery power all the time, it does so very quickly. It uses up to the full 130kw of the e-motor to do so depending on scenario, it also sometimes uses very little... Whatever it can do, it will regen without losing ANY power required on the wheels.

When you watch the battery charge meter jump up and down constantly when tracking the car or just driving it, you realize how good it is at it! Also, important to realize, we drove the cars constantly for a good hour or more, fast, slow, lighting, everything you can think of. And the power never ran out in any shape or form!

One comment that I think shows this even better was that Chris said, in the last years driving all of the P1 XPs and PPs, not a single time did they HAVE to actively charge one. Not a single team did the batter deplete or the car lose some of its power.

Also, regarding the whole "what about the second lap of nordschleife" questions everyone keeps asking... McLaren's goal for the Hybrid system's regen capability is based on the Ring. Their goal is, that when doing one lap of the Ring, the car has to have enough battery power to do the final very long straight from start to finish without running out of batter power for it. Once it passes that straight, then next turns and not full throttle parts are enough to recharge it again so that once it gets back to the long straight, it again has enough power. The car will run out of fuel before battery power, and when it gets empty, put it into E-Mode, drive to the petrol station and fill it up....

Love this machine...
To at least go into a little bit more tech detail on the hybrid...

The way the hybrid system runs, especially in race mode, is that it will try to always find a way to charge the battery. It is hard to show easy to understand examples, but there will be times the ICE can not speed up the car any faster than it currently is doing, it can not increase RPM quicker simply due to lag of something or another... if the ECU catches those times well, it can, even if its just for 2 seconds, overpower the ICE, take the extra torque out by power-inverting the e-motor to make it a generator instead, and not lose power to the wheels but power the e-motor...

I mean, look, adding X amount of kinetic energy into a 1400kg system requires considerably more energy than adding the Y amount of energy into a tiny electric motor connected DIRECTLY to the ICE with one single clutch. I am not sure if I am explaining this well.

If you drive the car, you CONSTANTLY see the recharge icon flicking on and off. You can also watch the charge bar diminish and fill up constantly. You do not feel ANY change in the car's performance while it does that. It just RUNS. Well.. screams..

When we were changing the car into Race Mode, it was charging the battery in those 30 seconds. And to just speed it up a bit, we pressed the CHARGE button in the car, and you could watch the bar fill up. Race Mode was set, pressed Charge again and took off.

Amazing piece of machinery.
"If the only thing keeping a person decent is the expectation of divine reward, then brother that person is a piece of sh*t"

CMSMJ1
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Re: McLaren P1

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^ Sounds like I want a go.... :D
IMPERATOR REX ANGLORUM

Richard
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Re: McLaren P1

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it will regen without losing ANY power required on the wheels
I think he highlighted the wrong bit. Charging will take power off the engine, the key is "required power". So it seems if your throttle position calls for 100 bhp, the engine will run at 105 bhp with a 5bhp drag from the generator? Yes the numbers are random but you get my drift.

I'm not sure that really qualifies as a hyrbid in the conventional sense. Normally hybrids harvest the waste energy when braking. This car seems to burn extra fuel to power a generator to store electricity for a power boost. Why not simply use a bigger engine and save the weight of the hybrid?

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SectorOne
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I´m too confused a bit about the all-the-time recharging.
However i think it does harvest energy from braking as well.
"If the only thing keeping a person decent is the expectation of divine reward, then brother that person is a piece of sh*t"

Richard
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McLaren P1

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Found another quote from that site
Oh, another small hybrid detail. It generates up to 0.25G of drag on brake regen. Which is roughly twice as much as the engine braking in the 12C will produce.
http://www.mclarenlife.com/forums/mclar ... old-2.html

Here's a video of the run. The diver's POV makes it seems much more exciting than the slick professional footage.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6KZdM8WSiQY[/youtube]

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Holm86
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Re: McLaren P1

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The grip is insane. You can really tell that car has a sh't-load of downforce :)

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SectorOne
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Sorry i should have included the source. It´s the one you posted Richard.
Seems like the mecca for getting the latest news on the P1.

It looks properly quick that car :)
"If the only thing keeping a person decent is the expectation of divine reward, then brother that person is a piece of sh*t"

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Holm86
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Re: McLaren P1

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McLaren just updated their coverpicture on facebook. Is the ring time due to be official?? :)

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SectorOne
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[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9IWiTpW ... e=youtu.be[/youtube]

Sub 7 laptime - yes
official laptime - nope, not yet.
"If the only thing keeping a person decent is the expectation of divine reward, then brother that person is a piece of sh*t"

ajprice
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Re: McLaren P1

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richard_leeds wrote:Found another quote from that site
Oh, another small hybrid detail. It generates up to 0.25G of drag on brake regen. Which is roughly twice as much as the engine braking in the 12C will produce.
http://www.mclarenlife.com/forums/mclar ... old-2.html

Here's a video of the run. The diver's POV makes it seems much more exciting than the slick professional footage.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6KZdM8WSiQY
A very rough timing of that TG lap I just did was around 1:14, crossing the line to start on the video at 1:17 and finishing at 1:31. That was with 2 people in the car, talking to each other. Driven one up, with the driver concentrating on the lap, this thing is going to be stupid fast :mrgreen:

The current fast laps are the Huayra and BAC Mono at 1:13.8 and 1:14.3

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SectorOne
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The Huayra should not count, they cheated a bit. They took the Zonda R´s slicks, cut some grooves in them and put them on when doing the time.
"If the only thing keeping a person decent is the expectation of divine reward, then brother that person is a piece of sh*t"

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SectorOne
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Re: McLaren P1

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"If the only thing keeping a person decent is the expectation of divine reward, then brother that person is a piece of sh*t"

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FoxHound
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SectorOne wrote:The Huayra should not count, they cheated a bit. They took the Zonda R´s slicks, cut some grooves in them and put them on when doing the time.
I believe this would fall foul of Top Gears self enforced rules, no? If it is race spec in any way it's time does not go on the board.
JET set

acosmichippo
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i think the rule is it has to be driveable on the street (street legal, able to get over speed bumps, etc). racy tires don't necessarily make it non-street-driveable.

not sure if they have any rules about the cars being strictly stock or not, but they should.