2013 German GP - Nurburgring

[marcush.]

weather predictions are brightsunshine and no clouds so we can expect the track temps soring -all playing in the hands of lotus and Ferrari .
I could imagine Ferraris and Buttons decision to run prime tyres will open opportunities and even Rosberg may as well come out lucky tomorrow if they have indeed solved their high track temperature tyre management issues.
I expect the option tyre to give up in no time on sunday ..Nurburgring is notorious for inducing understeer ...
I don´t expect teams to be able to do less than two stops and be competitive.

[mikeerfol]

weather predictions are brightsunshine and no clouds so we can expect the track temps soring -all playing in the hands of lotus and Ferrari .
I could imagine Ferraris and Buttons decision to run prime tyres will open opportunities and even Rosberg may as well come out lucky tomorrow if they have indeed solved their high track temperature tyre management issues.
I expect the option tyre to give up in no time on sunday ..Nurburgring is notorious for inducing understeer ...
I don´t expect teams to be able to do less than two stops and be competitive.

Button didn't make clear whether he is going to start on fresh options or primes tomorrow.

[beelsebob]

Oh, and no, Ferrari hadn't been testing with anything from 2013. That's kind of been the point. I'm not sure where you've picked this up from........... It's turned Formula 1 into even more of an enormous joke.

Score: -1 (Factually Incorrect). Ferrari absolutely did test using 2013 suspension and aero packages.

They did a 1000 kilometer test where we have absolutely 0 idea how much data was actually available.

We have no idea if Mercedes' engineers were in any way able to collect aero data, look at the tyres, dictate the setups, ...

Yer, we have no idea what they did. All we know is they've done a 1000 kilometre (let's spell that properly, shall we?) test and they're miraculously much faster in races and aren't dropping off at a rate of couple of seconds a lap like they did just prior in Barcelona. It's a trait they had had not just this season but last as well, but it all changed after that test......

This place really is a ghetto.

Nothing miraculous about it. In fact, even before the test was known about people were predicting that they would have excellent race pace in Monaco and Canada, and that they had to use it then. Once again, Silverstone too would favor them due to the overheating tyres being their main issue, and hence cool track temperatures benefiting them.

Interesting, even here at the Nurburgring we may not find out, as the tyres have a 10°C higher operating window than they used to, so Pirelli may just have stuck the tyres into the window for the car all along.

[princemarko]

Mercedes is a top notch team with talent all around, it was only a matter of time before results caught up to the level of qualifying. A 1000km test on different compounds and now which has been scrapped isn't propelling Mercedes to victory, for christsakes we just got pole on 2012 tires... I love all the haters come out vs Mercedes, especially Ferrari fans that ignore that their team has cheated for 30 years...

[Racer X]

Oh GOD... I love it when Merc' haters start crying.

Merc Haters'? Also the 2012 tires like you call it don't come in till next race. Only difference now is the Kevlar belt on the tires sidewall this race. For safety not performance. Do you even know what effect and how much of an effect tires have on an F1 car? Every inch of a car can give you or loose you time. The tires are an even bigger part. If you're car is not working well on the tires then you loose alot of time on every inch of your Aero Design...

There is no such thing not one exists.
Merc Fan boys exists people who didnt chear for them but no do. In any way Merc did test illegally and to believe they didnt learn alot is a dumb thing to belive. If they didnt learn from the testing that would make Merc engineers really dumb and well I don't think they are.

So we have to conclude this speed they now have has SOMETHING to do with a better understanding of the tires. Unlike all other teams that for work well with the Pirelis look at Sauber they have a better car this year then last year and the tires are making them look real bad again. But with the new construction for Hungary I hope things get better for all team in the meantime Merc better win here too. Tires shouldn't be dictating racing.......

[gary123]

Oh GOD... I love it when Merc' haters start crying.

Merc Haters'?

There is no such thing not one exists.
Merc Fan boys exists people who didnt chear for them but no do. In any way Merc did test illegally and to believe they didnt learn alot is a dumb thing to belive. If they didnt learn from the testing that would make Merc engineers really dumb and well I don't think they are.

So we have to conclude this speed they now have has SOMETHING to do with a better understanding of the tires. Unlike all other teams that for work well with the Pirelis look at Sauber they have a better car this year then last year and the tires are making them look real bad again. But with the new construction for Hungary I hope things get better for all team in the meantime Merc better win here too. Tires shouldn't be dictating racing.......

+1 =D>

[beelsebob]

Oh GOD... I love it when Merc' haters start crying.

Merc Haters'? Also the 2012 tires like you call it don't come in till next race. Only difference now is the Kevlar belt on the tires sidewall this race.

Actually, it's around the outer face of the tyre, not the sidewall.

For safety not performance.

But it has an impact on performance anyway.

Do you even know what effect and how much of an effect tires have on an F1 car?

Yes, we've seen it demonstrated fairly clearly over the years.

Every inch of a car can give you or loose you time. The tires are an even bigger part. If you're car is not working well on the tires then you loose alot of time on every inch of your Aero Design...

Right, and the Kevlar belt making the tyres happy to run 10°C hotter will have a big impact on performance.

So we have to conclude this speed they now have has SOMETHING to do with a better understanding of the tires.

Why do you have to conclude that? More reasonable conclusions would involve things like front limited circuits and cool weather.

Unlike all other teams that for work well with the Pirelis look at Sauber they have a better car this year then last year

How on earth did you conclude that? How did you analyze and assess that Sauber's car is magically better this year than last year?

and the tires are making them look real bad again.

Or... their car just sucks, much like McLaren.

[Goran2812]

Oh, and no, Ferrari hadn't been testing with anything from 2013. That's kind of been the point. I'm not sure where you've picked this up from........... It's turned Formula 1 into even more of an enormous joke.

Score: -1 (Factually Incorrect). Ferrari absolutely did test using 2013 suspension and aero packages.

On what grounds are you claiming this? Facts and proof please... tnx

[f1316]

This is all very pointless. There are lots of things I'd like to change about f1 in general, but moaning, trolling and flaming isn't going to change any of it. Personally, I come on here to gain insight from some very knowledgeable people - but nobody's changing anybody's partisan allegiances, let's fess up to that.

Back to the actual race, it'll be interesting to see how long the softs can go at the start and whether lower fuel and new tyres at the end of the race makes a difference.

[iotar__]

Reading last pages I thought we were after the race not before.

Ferrari sounded very confident with their strategy but did it ever work out? Outside top ten with Perez or forced and lucky like Vettel/Monaco 2012 - yes. But when you had a chance for 4th or 5th at worst sixth? Interesting that they're not worried about losing places at the start and in the first stint, expecting everyone to nurse tyres equally I guess and traffic to take care of the rest. Also short stint of course and difficult overtaking afterwards.

This first stint should be very interesting, but even if someone will be forced to pit earlier (Mercedes?), spreading couple of laps over two (?) stints on mediums shouldn't be a problem. And pitting earlier was usually a better strategy in Silverstone. It's more about who is around you when you lose the pace towards end of the stint.

If the race is interesting choice of tyres for Hungary looks worse and worse. Now that they're taking mediums and hards to young driver's test it's not difficult to guess tyre combinations for the rest of the season. I still go with RB as favourites and don't believe in Merc race pace here.

[MOWOG]

I will be happy to share my predictions with you. Please note I have never been wrong. My predictions will be available at noon on Sunday - Eastern Daylight Time!

[Poleman]

Pole lap

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kEBW8DntAn8[/youtube]

[GrizzleBoy]

The best thing about Lewis' poles is that it never really looks like the car is on rails.

[turbof1]

This is getting rediculous. The race hasn't been run yet and people are already moaning about how much progression mercedes has made with the tyre test. I assumed that the usual suspects on this would atleast have the patience until after the race to make their point, but apperently they are too eager to wait so they attack the totally unrelated and before-tyregate-consisting-qualy-pattern.

This thread is not dedicated to the tyregate ranting; this thread has been created to discuss the race. What the hell could be possibly confusing about that simple concept?

Reported in the hope this low quality garbage gets removed.

[GrizzleBoy]

I wonder if Lewis' "struggle" for balance was really just the team testing the limits of their new setup.

They've got a new high nose on there which is undoubtedly going to be having effects on the car, especially the volume of air they can get feed into the mid/rear of the car.

They could have just been testing how efficient the rear bodywork/aero is and if they can now run with less rear wing. That could explain Lewis' horrible rear end instability during P3.

/speculation

@turbo, agreed.

Mercedes have been taking poles and standing on podiums long before the "gate". Todays quali performance is just standard procedure if anything.