A review of Jules Bianchi's serious crash on lap 43 of the Japanese Grand Prix has shown that the Frenchman likely did not slow enough in the approach to turn 7, where double yellow flags were waved.
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Yes Kubica did hit a concrete barrier and that barrier moved. That sounds impressive but I suspect the mass of those free standing concrete barriers was less than the tractor in Bianchi's accident. Hence assuming identical impacts, hitting those loose concrete barriers would be less severe than hitting the tractor.
I do agree that a side skirt that ensured impact was taken by the car's crash structures would be help if there was ever a repeat of this freak accident. More concerning are the number of marhsall fatalities since the last driver fatality in F1.
Richard wrote:Yes Kubica did hit a concrete barrier and that barrier moved. That sounds impressive but I suspect the mass of those free standing concrete barriers was less than the tractor in Bianchi's accident. Hence assuming identical impacts, hitting those loose concrete barriers would be less severe than hitting the tractor.
I do agree that a side skirt that ensured impact was taken by the car's crash structures would be help if there was ever a repeat of this freak accident. More concerning are the number of marhsall fatalities since the last driver fatality in F1.
agreed, crashing under double yellow should never happen and FIA must do theirs to make sure it doesn't
Nothing added to cars or tractors will not make it any safer for the marshals, if anything it might make it worse
the FIA circus will bring their own Marshalls and Safety Crew to every race, instead of untrained amateuristic marshalls that don't even speak english.
You'll have a quantity of trained, skilled and experienced Marshalls with the right knowledge. These marshalls have to recieve a superlicense aswell.
The need of a superlicense will still keep local marshalls in play; You'll need the highest training and skillset to be allowed to marshall an F1 event. It won't change the marshalls for any other race at the same track - it will only improve the marshall abilities > essentially, this will help the entire circuit and country.
Not a superlicensed Marshall? Not allowed on the F1 track. simple as that.
You will hold a pack of 'Supervisor' Marshalls that will have responsibility for the track, and be paired by local Marshalls whom have gained a superlicense status, guaranteeing quality.
This in effect will have less paniced marshalls, but people that actually know what they're doing which will cause less errors and less dangerous situations.
Anybody recall that race (germany if i'm right a couple years ago), where there were some debris on track and a couple of marshalls scarely ran across the track trying to pick up some pieces, meanwhile falling not once, but multiple times across the track? It was a facade and disgrace.
Superlicensed Marshalls will surely only be of help.
"Explain the ending to F1 in football terms"
"Hamilton was beating Verstappen 7-0, then the ref decided F%$& rules, next goal wins
while also sending off 4 Hamilton players to make it more interesting"
Under the supervision of Dr. Mike Olinger, INDYCAR’s director of medical services, and Mike Yates, INDYCAR manager of track safety operations, the Holmatro Safety Team continually evaluates the latest equipment and its on-track procedures.
The Holmatro Safety Team consists of approximately 30 safety personnel with a minimum of 18 attending each event – a trauma physician, an orthopedic physician, 2 paramedics, 12 firefighters/EMTs and 2 registered nurses. Team personnel have an average of 20 years of experience in their respective areas. In addition to INDYCAR events, the Holmatro Safety Team has worked at Formula One, NASCAR and USAC events.
“About 75 percent of our team is comprised of civil servants who are officers in their departments, such as captains, lieutenants and a fire chief, which means they have vast amounts of experience managing people and managing ground scenes and incident command,” Yates said. “Many have bachelor’s degrees in fire science, and we also have people who have gone beyond the scope of their local fire departments by being involved with disaster task force teams.”
The team travels with four safety vehicles and brings the most sophisticated safety equipment and racing technologies to each race.
The Holmatro Safety Team works in conjunction with and coordinates the safety personnel staffing each venue, including firefighters, ambulance and tow-truck providers and track maintenance crews. An eight-hour instructional course is held at every new venue on the schedule and the team meets with tracks for update sessions before each event.
Richard wrote:Yes Kubica did hit a concrete barrier and that barrier moved. That sounds impressive but I suspect the mass of those free standing concrete barriers was less than the tractor in Bianchi's accident. Hence assuming identical impacts, hitting those loose concrete barriers would be less severe than hitting the tractor.
Debatable
The tractor was holding 700kg at the nose, so the rear end was light and the shape of the counterweight favoured the rear end lifting when the Marusia crashed with it
And again, the main problem is if the car can bounce and keep moving, or is stopped inmediately.
Manoah2u wrote:Let's raise an entirely different idea here;
the FIA circus will bring their own Marshalls and Safety Crew to every race, instead of untrained amateuristic marshalls that don't even speak english.
You'll have a quantity of trained, skilled and experienced Marshalls with the right knowledge. These marshalls have to recieve a superlicense aswell.
Manoah2u wrote:Let's raise an entirely different idea here;
the FIA circus will bring their own Marshalls and Safety Crew to every race, instead of untrained amateuristic marshalls that don't even speak english.
You'll have a quantity of trained, skilled and experienced Marshalls with the right knowledge. These marshalls have to recieve a superlicense aswell.
The need of a superlicense will still keep local marshalls in play; You'll need the highest training and skillset to be allowed to marshall an F1 event. It won't change the marshalls for any other race at the same track - it will only improve the marshall abilities > essentially, this will help the entire circuit and country.
Not a superlicensed Marshall? Not allowed on the F1 track. simple as that.
You will hold a pack of 'Supervisor' Marshalls that will have responsibility for the track, and be paired by local Marshalls whom have gained a superlicense status, guaranteeing quality.
This in effect will have less paniced marshalls, but people that actually know what they're doing which will cause less errors and less dangerous situations.
Anybody recall that race (germany if i'm right a couple years ago), where there were some debris on track and a couple of marshalls scarely ran across the track trying to pick up some pieces, meanwhile falling not once, but multiple times across the track? It was a facade and disgrace.
Superlicensed Marshalls will surely only be of help.
They aren't untrained, nor amateuristic. F1technical did an interview a short while ago at circuit zolder about it; you'll soon see an article or 2 pop up.
How will changing the marshalls change the laws of physics?
How will a marshall speaking english make him better than a non english speaking marshall? What if you have a team of english speaking marshalls trying the communicate with a non-english speaker (E.g a serious incident has occured and they need to get a helicopter ASAP, but they are in Japan so the helicopter operator speaks Japanese).
The marshalls did nothing wrong. You can't red flag the race everytime something happens. It would be a great disaster if F1 went to way of Nascar and Indy car and had a millions stopages each race
A small minority of the marshals really are amateurs, even at a F1 race. I think most people know why Tom Pryce had to die!
Can a scenario like that happen again? Yes, just watch the the video from Abu Dhabi 2014. Maldonado has an engine failure and parks his car on the right side of the road. At 0:43 min, three marshalls cross the track, two equipped with fire extinguishers.
Dear FIA, if you read this, please pm me for a redesign of the Technical Regulations to avoid finger nose shapes for 2016! :-)
For funk's sake, just look at this video. I remember this race, it turns out it was Canada, not Germany like
i stated above. It was a horrible and awkward sight, and I genuinly though the F1 driver was going to hit the retard that fell (twice). He tried to avoid him then when changing direction could have hit him still.
Where are the clear yellow flags, how about double yellow? A Marshall falls and does it twice, and the other marshall doesn't even act to pull him aside. After the first sauber passed, the fat lump just casually gets up then anotherdriver is scared shitless and could have hit him finishig him off.
It's Rediculous. it's a disgrace, it's disrespectfull to the sport and the drivers and it's a total blamage.
And about speaking english, F1 is run from a 'communications center', where the Stewards are located during the race. Remember Korea? Remember what happened?
This was warning enough something terrible was bound to happen if nothing changes, and guess what? Nothing changes and now we have a young superstar in a hospital because of amateurs - that includes the 'control centre', because that Sutil accident should have been either redflagged, should have had safety car, or the race should have ended because of the circumstances.
Meanyhile, refresh yourself with this:
This is funking insane on so many levels, it's not even comprehensible. It was like F1 is being run by a bunch of amateurs instead of getting the professional approach it needs and deserves.
Don't mind the music, because even though you could have a laugh about it, the dead serious point is it's not a funny matter, it's dangerous. Just look at this video below; mindboggling amateuristic.
These people just don't have a clue to what they are doing nor what they are dealing with. It's a recipe for disaster.
It's like letting a bunch of monkeys run a nuclear facility. It can go right for a while, but it's gonna get seriously, seriously wrong.
Does the F1 world learn from this Bianchi incident? I don't think so, the report only tells me they're trying to put the blame away and then leave it.
Do we really need anything bigger to happen?
About speaking English; If you have all the involved people speaking english, you establish a workable base. The helicopter pilot only speaking Japanese? Now that would be asking for trouble. You seriously can't expect the F1 medical doctor to speak every language of every spot F1 is hosted. You can however expect the F1 host bodies to be able to communicate on a level base; English will be the most simple and basic solution.
And even then, it's not neccesarily about the language; it's about 'sifting'; if people are able and willing to learn something as universally important as knowing the english vocabulary, then you result in having people whom are actually usable - in essence, not lazy bums. You don't have to have rocket scientists, but i wouldn't feel good about having a walmart employee that only knows how to fill the toiletpaper shelves.
Last edited by Manoah2u on 09 Dec 2014, 19:51, edited 1 time in total.
"Explain the ending to F1 in football terms"
"Hamilton was beating Verstappen 7-0, then the ref decided F%$& rules, next goal wins
while also sending off 4 Hamilton players to make it more interesting"
Someone stumbling on the track is clumsy and dangerous, however sh*t happens. There is a system in place where the more experience you have, the higher the rank of marshall you are and the more responsibility you have. Someone who just gets started for instance only gets to wave a flag. Someone who needs to get on the track while the race is ongoing, has quite a bit of experience in the bag before he's allowed to.
It might not seem from the examples you took, but again: there's a huge coördination behind it. But you'll see in our coming feature . Maybe we should make a difference between being amateuristic and acting amateuristic, because even in the most professional company amateuristic blunders happen, on a daily basis.
For funk's sake, just look at this video. I remember this race, it turns out it was Canada, not Germany like
i stated above. It was a horrible and awkward sight, and I genuinly though the F1 driver was going to hit the retard that fell (twice). He tried to avoid him then when changing direction could have hit him still.
Where are the clear yellow flags, how about double yellow? A Marshall falls and does it twice, and the other marshall doesn't even act to pull him aside. After the first sauber passed, the fat lump just casually gets up then anotherdriver is scared shitless and could have hit him finishig him off.
It's Rediculous. it's a disgrace, it's disrespectfull to the sport and the drivers and it's a total blamage.
And about speaking english, F1 is run from a 'communications center', where the Stewards are located during the race. Remember Korea? Remember what happened?
This was warning enough something terrible was bound to happen if nothing changes, and guess what? Nothing changes and now we have a young superstar in a hospital because of amateurs - that includes the 'control centre', because that Sutil accident should have been either redflagged, should have had safety car, or the race should have ended because of the circumstances.
This is funking insane on so many levels, it's not even comprehensible. It was like F1 is being run by a bunch of amateurs instead of getting the professional approach it needs and deserves.
Don't mind the music, because even though you could have a laugh about it, the dead serious point is it's not a funny matter, it's dangerous. Just look at this video below; mindboggling amateuristic.
These people just don't have a clue to what they are doing nor what they are dealing with. It's a recipe for disaster.
It's like letting a bunch of monkeys run a nuclear facility. It can go right for a while, but it's gonna get seriously, seriously wrong.
Does the F1 world learn from this Bianchi incident? I don't think so, the report only tells me they're trying to put the blame away and then leave it.
I'm looking forward to the article, definately, and i'd like to see that, because of all these issues, I reckon it's understandable people are doubtfull on whether there is even the slightest sense of professionalism in this regard.
Still doesn't change the fact something needs to happen.
"Explain the ending to F1 in football terms"
"Hamilton was beating Verstappen 7-0, then the ref decided F%$& rules, next goal wins
while also sending off 4 Hamilton players to make it more interesting"
The answer is simple. F1 should fire anyone who ever trips over, regardless of what skills or expertise they bring.
The Bianchi incident is terrible but to suggest that you need to red flag races or deploy the safety car whenever a car stops on track is wrong. Are sweeping changes required? Probably not, the report was commissioned by people with much more expertise and knowledge than use and they don't think so.
. Maybe we should make a difference between being amateuristic and acting amateuristic, because even in the most professional company amateuristic blunders happen, on a daily basis.
