2017-2020 Aerodynamic Regulations Thread

[hollus]

Doesn't going from 240km/h to 275km/h work out as going from 3.0g to 3.9g?

[ripper]

I personally dislike tyre war because a fundamental part of the car is totally out of your control. If one supplier is much better than others the teams that have chosen that manufacturer will have an advantage given by a right contractual choice. It isn't something you can develop, it's an advantage you have or you haven't.

With one supplier everyone is on the same level and every team can find its own solutions to extract maximum performance from same equipment.

By that logic everything that is generally outsourced on most teams should be all from the same manufacturer for all teams. Brake pads and disks, the rims, the entire PU, fasteners, nuts and bolts, the fuels, lubricants and hydraulic/brake fluids, paint and the big ones that people don't realise, the raw metals that are milled and carbon fibre/Kevlar sheets used to make bodywork, chassis and parts for the car.

All of this is outsourced to outside companies (even if they work closely with them) with maybe the largest teams doing some of these parts themselves such as milling their own fasteners and nuts/bolts.

Part of running a good racing team is who you choose to partner yourself with. Who you have as a partner is sometimes, but not always, far more than a marketing exercise.

We have reached a point where race jouro's are pretty reliably calling teams tyre strategies before the race. If everybody generally knows what everybody else is going to do then the racing gets more boring. In addition to that people are talking about overtaking, the more of a spec series we have the more that different teams will converge on the same solutions. Teams will be running similar strategies at similar speeds, as a result, genuine overtakes (not through DRS or pit stops) is reduced because cars tyres generally degrade at the same rate.

When we have different tyre manufacturers things get a bit more mixed up.

Lastly, F1 wants to tout itself as a sport where technology trickles down to road cars eventually. At present a lot of the opposite is happening. The FIA seems to be obsessed with trying this smoke and mirrors trick of making the trickle down effect to be working yet that can only go so far. If they really want to see a trickle down effect on a tyre level, ya know, what they blab on about, then having multiple manufacturers competing with each other and improving tyre technology is the only way to do it (even if a lot of it doesn't actually apply to road car technology).

I agree with you to some extent. Given how much is important fuel nowadays I would have ruled differently: ONE fuel for everyone, chosen 2 year before the PU introduction and no fuel changes for X years. Brake pads and so on can be changed much easier than a tyre.

I agree with you about choosing a partner, but you can't know how will a Goodyear/Michelin/Bridgestone tyre behave in 2/3 years... Anyway I know it's offtopic and this is just my personal opinion.

[wuzak]

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/analy ... rs-682998/

[bhall II]

My only doubt is if you´re refering to Pirelli, the new tire regulatinons, the new regulations as a whole, or the whole F1?

Yes.

[strad]

Is it the effect on the drivers that is cause for concern?
It's not the type of G-forces that pull blood from the brain causing them to black out is it?
I think that at first it would indeed feel huge, but that in short order they would just adapt.
Or is it a safety concern as to the higher cornering speed causing debris to be thrown farther in case of accident?
I can see that with higher corner speeds, which is where the vast majority of accidents seem to happen both the impact speeds, and/or rapid deceleration could demonstrate a need for yet stronger survival cells.

[lkocev]

Doesn't going from 240km/h to 275km/h work out as going from 3.0g to 3.9g?

Yeah I did the arithmetic, it appears you are correct. You would think that a motorsports journalist would know to check something like that, bit disappointing really.

At that rate, I would expect the safety standards of most circuits will be OK.

[chip engineer]

Doesn't going from 240km/h to 275km/h work out as going from 3.0g to 3.9g?

Yeah I did the arithmetic, it appears you are correct. You would think that a motorsports journalist would know to check something like that, bit disappointing really.

At that rate, I would expect the safety standards of most circuits will be OK.

I agree with the 3.9g calculation as well.

[henry]

Doesn't going from 240km/h to 275km/h work out as going from 3.0g to 3.9g?

And in addition would need more than 50% more power to deal with the aerodynamic drag alone

On top of that we have higher frontal area and the increased resistance from tyre slip.

Where's the fuel going to come from to achieve that in the race?

With the current fuel regs we'll see even bigger differences between qualifying and race than we do now.

[Vyssion]

Where's the fuel going to come from to achieve that in the race?

With the current fuel regs we'll see even bigger differences between qualifying and race than we do now.

I really don't understand why the racing formula which is at the very top of the world needs to try and be "green".... Racing is supposed to use fuel... It is supposedly meant to be the best, fastest, most awesome racing there is!! When I hear an F1 car go past, I want to hear it tearing up the road in front of it whilst ripping holes in the ozone layer behind it.

Realistically, you cant tell me that limitting F1 fuel usage has any sort of considerable effect on reducing climate change when compared to EVERYTHING else in the world...

[Juzh]

Doesn't going from 240km/h to 275km/h work out as going from 3.0g to 3.9g?

And in addition would need more than 50% more power to deal with the aerodynamic drag alone

On top of that we have higher frontal area and the increased resistance from tyre slip.

Where's the fuel going to come from to achieve that in the race?

With the current fuel regs we'll see even bigger differences between qualifying and race than we do now.

This is why renault is pushing for fuel allocation limit to be removed. And they are absolutely correct. Lift and coast will be off the scale should new aero rules come into effect.

I'd bet racing will not deteriorate with those rules. Tires will still be as bad as they are now and probably even worse with the load increase and this will create more wheel to wheel action.

[godlameroso]

Doesn't going from 240km/h to 275km/h work out as going from 3.0g to 3.9g?

Yeah I did the arithmetic, it appears you are correct. You would think that a motorsports journalist would know to check something like that, bit disappointing really.

At that rate, I would expect the safety standards of most circuits will be OK.

I agree with the 3.9g calculation as well.

That calculation assumes mass, inertia, tire grip, and dimensions are equal between the comparisons. Now add 25kg, and more mechanical grip as well.

[wuzak]

Yeah I did the arithmetic, it appears you are correct. You would think that a motorsports journalist would know to check something like that, bit disappointing really.

At that rate, I would expect the safety standards of most circuits will be OK.

I agree with the 3.9g calculation as well.

That calculation assumes mass, inertia, tire grip, and dimensions are equal between the comparisons. Now add 25kg, and more mechanical grip as well.

It only takes into account velocity and radius.

a = v^2/r

[Vyssion]

I agree with the 3.9g calculation as well.

That calculation assumes mass, inertia, tire grip, and dimensions are equal between the comparisons. Now add 25kg, and more mechanical grip as well.

It only takes into account velocity and radius.
a = v^2/r

Heres a post that I made a while back that covers all this:

Essentially, the generation of downforce is the way that allows for the car to (in lamans terms) "be heavier than it actually is, without the bad stuff that comes with an increased weight".

The downforce and the normal (weight) force of the vehicle is the simplified mechanism by which the tyres gain their grip. And again, over-simplifying things for a purely aero discussion, the more grip you have, the faster you can theoretically corner at.
(Can't display an actual 'mu' symbol so will refer to it as C_f from here)

The "N" denotes normal force which is made up of the vehicles weight force and any downforce currently being produced.


If you combine this equation with the formula for centripetal acceleration (which could be adapted to fit a corner if a constant radius)

and rearranged to give:


Then you get the following formula:


This then shows that for a constant coefficient of friction, that velocity is proportional to (meaning that an increase in the right hand side of the equation will increase the left hand side). If this is differentiated to get this in terms of time, it shows that time is proportional to (or simply that it is inversly proportional).

The important term here is this which is often referred to as the "specific downforce" of the vehicle. So if we are to increase this term, by means of increasing downforce or reducing the cars mass, the theoretical maximum velocity we can corner at will increase and hence the time taken to travel the corner will decrease. Add in that since you can carry more speed through the corner, braking time is reduced in the lead up to it and the acceleration beyond it begins from a higher speed, and you can begin to see the benefits.

By increasing mass initially, this would have the effect of decreasing this term, which would be counter productive.

This argument here is purely from an aerodynamic standpoint (and extremely simplified!!!) though and doesn't even mention things like the weight transfer or suspension changes and other vehicle dynamic effects that would be required to handle the higher initial weight during a race. But hopefully it helps explain why it is the way it is!!

[F1NAC]

AMUS reporting that 8 out of 11 teams are against new cars in 2017. Red Bull, McLaren and Toro Rosso are for these changes

Vyssion great post +1

[Vyssion]

Vyssion great post +1