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What's there to know, it's new...We haven't seen anything since those pictures back in fall 2020, which is a really long time in PU design. They have admitted to having a front ICE Compressor, rear ICE turbing config and mid ICE MGU-H. Until the first tests in 22 days we're not gonna know much. Even then we might just get a glimce into reliability. Be surprised we get shots of under the hood, unless they have an accident that exposes it. Remember last year, we ddn't see the cooling until the day after the last race.
Not sure what your definition of the new concept is...new to F1 or New to Alpine. The concept is new to Alpine but it is the same concept being used by Merc and Honda. Not even sure we can call it a concept. It's more of the Turbine/MGU-H/compressor layout. In to 2021 and before the Renault layout was that all 3 sat at the behind the PU (or there abouts). They've also talked about the PU/.ICE being lighter so we no idea what they've done to improve that(block changes etc). They've also talked about alot more power, which we have no clue as to where that's coming from. I'd presume the PU is new from front to back, heads intake block,etc etc etc.selvam_e2002 wrote: ↑03 Feb 2022, 16:31shall I know how different the engine design from Mercedes and Honda? Is it new concept?
I am so confused as to whats happening with that... From the outside it looks like: "BREAKING NEWS: nothing has changed." Also what is this CTO role, does it make him the team principle of Alpine? or is that yet to be decided?diffuser wrote: ↑03 Feb 2022, 16:55https://it.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-al ... -/7857380/
https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/arti ... Sfz7U.html
The Enstone team has promoted two internal figures after the departure of Marcin Budkowski: Laurent Rossi wanted to trust Pat Fry, the 57-year-old former Ferrari driver, promoted to CTO, while the role of technical director was entrusted to Harman , former Mercedes frame builder.
Pat will have to look after the performance of the car, working on both the development of the Enstone structure and the selection of people, while Matthew Harmann becomes technical director after being the director of engineering.
Former frame builder of Mercedes where he was a point of reference for 18 years until 2019, the Englishman will rely on his skills as a frame builder in the integration between car and power unit, for which he will have a very close relationship with Viry Chatillon's engineers .
According to Laurent Rossi, the combination of very experienced technicians should allow an important leap in quality in the Alpine team.
What about the new 2022 engine? Will it mark the technological breakthrough often mentioned by Cyril Abiteboul?
I'm not going to go into detail. We have an engine that will change drastically compared to this year's, both in terms of technical definition and operating conditions. Why do I say that? Because it's going to have an impact on the single-seater, the chassis, typically the sizing of the coolers and so on. So this engine is going to be eminently different from the current engine, that's for sure.
Rossi, 2021
We are really waiting for 2022, we have frozen the engine in 2019 to work on the next engine next year, which will not only be more powerful, but also with characteristics that will allow us to make a different chassis, on cooling, aerodynamics, weight. Prost, 2021
... our new power unit, which, in addition to improvements in propulsion power and energy management, the usual stuff that makes you go faster in a straight line, also includes a new architecture and changes to address some of our weaknesses compared to our competitors. Budkowski, 2021
"I expect two things to make the difference: the engine, but also the installation, everything that is cooling policy. These are things where we are very advanced. We have invested a lot. We couldn't do it on the current generation of cars because it was too late, but there are going to be big breakthroughs." Abiteboul, 2019
But everything changes, we had an aerodynamic handicap because of the engine architecture... And we will change the engine architecture, we will separate the turbo from the electric, and we will have a much thinner engine that will allow us to gain points in aerodynamics. De Meo, 2021
Asked if the 2022 engine could include a change of concept, Renault’s engine technical director Remi Taffin said: “The simple answer is yes.”
And on the prospect of that meaning a Mercedes-style layout, Taffin added: “We could be going down that route. We are evaluating.”
Taffin, 2021
Viry's efforts, already looking ahead to 2022, are now focused on cooling and installing the engine in the chassis.
On the track," explains our contact, "we introduce a quantity of fuel into the engine that produces a little more than 1200 kW [power equivalent to 100 kg/h of gasoline]. Of this 1200 kW, about 600 kW comes out of the crankshaft, since the efficiency of the engine is 50%. This leaves another 600 kW. Of these 600 kW, 200 kW are taken from the turbine: part is used to compress the air (the compressor) and part is recovered by the MGU-H. Of the remaining 400 kW, 200 to 300 kW goes to the exhaust, which is 'stupidly' dispersed energy."
"The balance, about 150 kW, is dissipated into the car's coolants: engine water, transmission and hydraulic system oil, etc. If we were able to make the engine work at higher temperatures, we could reduce the surface area of the radiators (thus lowering drag), or even adopt architectures that would restrict the types of fluid and homogenize their temperatures."
"The [2022] engine will be very different," concludes Rémi Taffin. We will significantly change the architecture, taking advantage of the fact that everyone will be starting from scratch."
Taffin, 2019 F1I magazine
Right but my point was, we'll have no ide what that's gonna look like and it's gonna be really hard to see the difference if we ever get pics before 2026.Blackout wrote: ↑03 Feb 2022, 18:45AFAIK Bob Bell was the previous Chief Technical Officer, until 2018 when he became a technical advisor, but wasnt replaced.
So now Fry will fulfill that role again, and Matt Harman replaces Fry and becomes Technical Director...
Regarding the engine, they are not just splitting the turbo...
-
What about the new 2022 engine? Will it mark the technological breakthrough often mentioned by Cyril Abiteboul?
I'm not going to go into detail. We have an engine that will change drastically compared to this year's, both in terms of technical definition and operating conditions. Why do I say that? Because it's going to have an impact on the single-seater, the chassis, typically the sizing of the coolers and so on. So this engine is going to be eminently different from the current engine, that's for sure.
Rossi, 2021
We are really waiting for 2022, we have frozen the engine in 2019 to work on the next engine next year, which will not only be more powerful, but also with characteristics that will allow us to make a different chassis, on cooling, aerodynamics, weight. Prost, 2021
... our new power unit, which, in addition to improvements in propulsion power and energy management, the usual stuff that makes you go faster in a straight line, also includes a new architecture and changes to address some of our weaknesses compared to our competitors. Budkowski, 2021
"I expect two things to make the difference: the engine, but also the installation, everything that is cooling policy. These are things where we are very advanced. We have invested a lot. We couldn't do it on the current generation of cars because it was too late, but there are going to be big breakthroughs." Abiteboul, 2019
But everything changes, we had an aerodynamic handicap because of the engine architecture... And we will change the engine architecture, we will separate the turbo from the electric, and we will have a much thinner engine that will allow us to gain points in aerodynamics. De Meo, 2021Asked if the 2022 engine could include a change of concept, Renault’s engine technical director Remi Taffin said: “The simple answer is yes.”
And on the prospect of that meaning a Mercedes-style layout, Taffin added: “We could be going down that route. We are evaluating.”
Taffin, 2021
Viry's efforts, already looking ahead to 2022, are now focused on cooling and installing the engine in the chassis.
On the track," explains our contact, "we introduce a quantity of fuel into the engine that produces a little more than 1200 kW [power equivalent to 100 kg/h of gasoline]. Of this 1200 kW, about 600 kW comes out of the crankshaft, since the efficiency of the engine is 50%. This leaves another 600 kW. Of these 600 kW, 200 kW are taken from the turbine: part is used to compress the air (the compressor) and part is recovered by the MGU-H. Of the remaining 400 kW, 200 to 300 kW goes to the exhaust, which is 'stupidly' dispersed energy."
"The balance, about 150 kW, is dissipated into the car's coolants: engine water, transmission and hydraulic system oil, etc. If we were able to make the engine work at higher temperatures, we could reduce the surface area of the radiators (thus lowering drag), or even adopt architectures that would restrict the types of fluid and homogenize their temperatures."
"The [2022] engine will be very different," concludes Rémi Taffin. We will significantly change the architecture, taking advantage of the fact that everyone will be starting from scratch."
Taffin, 2019 F1I magazine
By any chances could that mean an oil cooling system, similar to those largely used in some old motorbikes, and quite similar to some air cooled engines?Blackout wrote: ↑03 Feb 2022, 18:45
[...]
Viry's efforts, already looking ahead to 2022, are now focused on cooling and installing the engine in the chassis.
[...]
"If we were able to make the engine work at higher temperatures, we could reduce the surface area of the radiators (thus lowering drag), or event adopt architectures that would restrict the types of fluid and homogenize their temperatures."
"The [2022] engine will be very different," concludes Rémi Taffin. We will significantly change the architecture, taking advantage of the fact that everyone will be starting from scratch."
Taffin, 2019 F1I magazine
He said that it's been like this way since Novemeber 1st. Either Mat and Pat have been wearing multipule hats, they've identified thier replacements internaly already or someone is comming in from the outside.stan_french wrote: ↑03 Feb 2022, 18:32I am so confused as to whats happening with that... From the outside it looks like: "BREAKING NEWS: nothing has changed." Also what is this CTO role, does it make him the team principle of Alpine? or is that yet to be decided?diffuser wrote: ↑03 Feb 2022, 16:55https://it.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-al ... -/7857380/
https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/arti ... Sfz7U.html
The Enstone team has promoted two internal figures after the departure of Marcin Budkowski: Laurent Rossi wanted to trust Pat Fry, the 57-year-old former Ferrari driver, promoted to CTO, while the role of technical director was entrusted to Harman , former Mercedes frame builder.
Pat will have to look after the performance of the car, working on both the development of the Enstone structure and the selection of people, while Matthew Harmann becomes technical director after being the director of engineering.
Former frame builder of Mercedes where he was a point of reference for 18 years until 2019, the Englishman will rely on his skills as a frame builder in the integration between car and power unit, for which he will have a very close relationship with Viry Chatillon's engineers .
According to Laurent Rossi, the combination of very experienced technicians should allow an important leap in quality in the Alpine team.
Which ones ?BassVirolla wrote: ↑03 Feb 2022, 22:20By any chances could that mean an oil cooling system, similar to those largely used in some old motorbikes, and quite similar to some air cooled engines?
https://www.rideapart.com/features/2461 ... hines/amp/Blackout wrote: ↑04 Feb 2022, 11:39Which ones ?BassVirolla wrote: ↑03 Feb 2022, 22:20By any chances could that mean an oil cooling system, similar to those largely used in some old motorbikes, and quite similar to some air cooled engines?
InterestingBassVirolla wrote: ↑04 Feb 2022, 11:54https://www.rideapart.com/features/2461 ... hines/amp/Blackout wrote: ↑04 Feb 2022, 11:39Which ones ?BassVirolla wrote: ↑03 Feb 2022, 22:20By any chances could that mean an oil cooling system, similar to those largely used in some old motorbikes, and quite similar to some air cooled engines?
https://i.pinimg.com/736x/32/17/af/3217 ... orking.jpg
Another one:
https://cloudfront-us-east-1.images.arc ... CBU5PE.jpg
Of course, in the context of an F1 car, it would resemble much more a "water" cooled engine, but with a low viscosity oil.
The Suzuki engine, in order to use the same fluid for lubrication and cooling, had two pumps: One for high flow, low pressure, and another for high pressure, low flow.