2023 car speculation

[BlueCheetah66]

The mandated weight distribution is a joke since year one. Like mandated shoe sice for every football player one the field.

IMO getting rid of the mandated weight distribution only works if the teams are able to get below the weight limit easily, to the point where they can change their distribution easily with ballast. I have wondered though, whether the difficulty some teams have had with reducing their weight was partially due to the limit on distribution, given that they would have to take off weight evenly across the car.

[bonjon1979]

I thought the weight distribution rule was brought in because the teams don’t know what sort of tyres they’re getting. Teams could really luck in or out depending on how the weight dist interacts with the tyres. Doesn’t seem quite right that a team could be dominant through pure luck

The weight distribution is somewhat irrelevant with respect to the tire because the cars are generating more than their weight in downforce. The distribution of that downforce is defined by the aero balance. Since aero balance is not mandated by the regulations, there is no actual spec weight distribution w.r.t the tire when the cars are at speed.

Not so according to Ross brawn. And with all respect I reckon I’ll take his word for it!


"If the weight distribution remained free, then some would get it right by accident while others get it totally wrong. That's what we want to avoid," said FOTA's technical boss Ross Brawn.

[AR3-GP]

I thought the weight distribution rule was brought in because the teams don’t know what sort of tyres they’re getting. Teams could really luck in or out depending on how the weight dist interacts with the tyres. Doesn’t seem quite right that a team could be dominant through pure luck

The weight distribution is somewhat irrelevant with respect to the tire because the cars are generating more than their weight in downforce. The distribution of that downforce is defined by the aero balance. Since aero balance is not mandated by the regulations, there is no actual spec weight distribution w.r.t the tire when the cars are at speed.

Not so according to Ross brawn. And with all respect I reckon I’ll take his word for it!


"If the weight distribution remained free, then some would get it right by accident while others get it totally wrong. That's what we want to avoid," said FOTA's technical boss Ross Brawn.

I don't really get your point. Aero loads equal the car's weight and more. When the car is at speed, the weight distribution is changed by the aero balance which is not regulated. So the static weight distribution mandated by the regulation is defeated to an extent as it's weighting can be 50% or less when the aero load exceeds the car's weight.

Even when not at speed, the car must have an engine and gearbox in the rear, and a crash structure in the front, wheels at the 4 corners. The variance of the static weight distribution if it was free wouldn't vary all that much between the cars and is certainly not going to be a case of "some got it right" and others "totally wrong". I am happy to go against what Ross said because I think you are reading it out of context. Right and "totally wrong" is being taken completely out of context. It's an exaggeration.

[Venturiation]

now that we have seen some cars do you think we are going to see a closer midfield? specially the backmarkers

[mendis]

now that we have seen some cars do you think we are going to see a closer midfield? specially the backmarkers

There's a good article on the-race.com about the topic.

https://the-race.com/formula-1/a-realit ... f1-season/

[organic]

now that we have seen some cars do you think we are going to see a closer midfield? specially the backmarkers

Don't see why there shouldn't be with convergence and the backmarkers having a chance to take the best ideas from the fast cars. Of course the best cars will develop too but there is natural convergence in regs when the easiest gains are all found by every team and it becomes Harder to progress as much in absolute terms

[organic]

Williams are doing their shakedown today so should see snippets of their real car. 3 new cars in one day - Nice

Rumours are that alpine have their garage set up at Silverstone too, but they aren't launching their livery yet

[Venturiation]

are there any onboard shakedown videos for the new cars?

[organic]

are there any onboard shakedown videos for the new cars?

Nothing from the proper onboard cameras but Alfa Romeo had a little one of zhou doing a practice start:

[Venturiation]

are there any onboard shakedown videos for the new cars?

Nothing from the proper onboard cameras but Alfa Romeo had a little one of zhou doing a practice start:

thanks, i wanted to see if some cars still bounce a bit

[chrisc90]

What's everyone's take on the convergence this season? Who's followed others and who's going to be out on their own again.

[continuum16]

What's everyone's take on the convergence this season? Who's followed others and who's going to be out on their own again.

At time of writing we have seen more or less half the grid: (Alfa, Haas, Williams, McLaren, plus partial renderings or poor quality images/videos of AT, Alpine, RB)

With some exceptions, the general trend seems to be some combination of:
1 - Elliptical (and slightly backwards-swept) sidepod inlets (like F1-75)
2 - Downwash ramp sidepods (sometimes with ridges along outer edge of sidepod) (like A522)
3 - Deep undercut (like RB18, possibly even more streamlined)
4 - A general trend toward cannon exits as preferred cooling scheme
5 - "Underbite" sidepod inlets (like RB18)

Suspension design still seems pretty varied across the grid on both ends of the car.

Each car seen so far seems to have 3 or 4 out of 5 things listed above:
Alfa - missing the underbite inlet and no sidepod ridges
Haas - Missing downwash ramp and deep undercut
Williams - missing underbite
McLaren - missing elliptical inlet

TBC if Red Bull has all five of these traits, but it looks possible based on the footage. Same for Alpine. The AlphaTauri render showed elliptical inlets but no underbite, although it may not be representative.

Nobody has really borrowed ideas from Merc, except for Williams on the front suspension. I'm very interested to see what the Ferrari looks like as well, because a lot of people have copied elements of the F1-75 (or in Haas' case, most of it). But Ferrari themselves may have found something better. The Mercedes will probably still stand alone as the most different car of the lot, unless they've deceived us all with claims it will look the same as the W13 from the outside.

It'd be ironic if RB turns up with a Ferrari-style outwash sidepod while Ferrari turns up with a deep undercut and a downwash ramp, although I somehow don't think that's going to happen.

Edit: maybe I'll come back to this at the end of the week once we've seen the Aston, Alpine, Merc, and Ferrari.

[continuum16]

What's everyone's take on the convergence this season? Who's followed others and who's going to be out on their own again.

...

With some exceptions, the general trend seems to be some combination of:
1 - Elliptical (and slightly backwards-swept) sidepod inlets (like F1-75)
2 - Downwash ramp sidepods (sometimes with ridges along outer edge of sidepod) (like A522)
3 - Deep undercut (like RB18, possibly even more streamlined)
4 - A general trend toward cannon exits as preferred cooling scheme
5 - "Underbite" sidepod inlets (like RB18)

...

Well, Aston has gone for everything here, with although it's debatable on the elliptical inlets (since the underbite is so extreme) and size of the undercut (but IMO it's pretty decent, surely more than the Haas at least).

[Seanspeed]

now that we have seen some cars do you think we are going to see a closer midfield? specially the backmarkers

Maybe slightly, but probably not to some degree that there's not still clear tiers and gaps when seen over a period of time(variability always exists from race to race).

I dont think simple 'aero concept' convergence is gonna necessarily correlate to competitive convergence. The details are always the most critical aspect. And I dont mean physical details, I mean airflow and chassis/mechanical behavior details. Stuff that isn't apparent by looking at the cars.

Pretty much every year in this sport, we see distinct separation of teams based not on outwardly observable aspects, but by such details. Given that, I dont see any reason to think 2023 will suddenly be the year to buck this trend.

I think Williams have been a good example of this in modern times. They often produce cars that look like they've got the goods on surface level, but still end up at the back of the grid anyways since what the package as a whole just doesn't work that well for whatever reason(s).

[Venturiation]

so every car is converging in a Ferrari/Redbull hybrid

how can mercedes stay different? there has to be something