Mercedes SLS

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Oh I see now segedunum.

Yea you have convinced me the SLS is an American piece of ---. It was designed entirely by americans, the engine, chassis, suspension, money the lot was Chryslers.
What a Joke of a car it is, only being able to crack 0-62 in 3.7 seconds and 200mph.

Those Germans got in right at the end to put their badge on it and stick some gullwings on....

Exactly what planet are you on? (mods within my rights here, not as if you credit FIAT for supplying Ferrari with all its tech, its a darn Ferrari at the end of the day regardless of all the FIAT bits)

And mid engined cars do tend to look similar guys.... it has somthing to do with the small matter of the engine mounted behind the driver
And for the record the 4/12 Chrysler is actually a vary large Veyron rival. The SLM is a compact midengined sports car with alleged lightweight components, the 4-12 was never desgined to be lightwieght...just bloody quick.

Finally, that Mercedes rendering is exactly that a RENDERING. Its actually reformed from an R8 according to Hans G Lehman...Google him.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

http://www.autoevolution.com/news/the-s ... 21844.html

http://www.leftlanenews.com/mercedes-sl ... viper.html

So there we have it, edmunds started a story and it snow balled...where is the evidence?

[autogyro]

Hmmm, that was an amusing read. Proved nothing whatsoever.
Twin clutch gearboxes (seamless shift) are common in most performance cars now and aluminium rather than steel doesnt realy say anything modern either.
Not exactly a revolutionary lay out is it. Now if it could flap those 1950s doors.
Of course it is a lot more expensive, it has a three pointed star on the front.
It even looks like a glorified Viper. GM all over it.
I still want to know how many readers believe that an Electric market leading supercar has to have a huge hole in the front? (answers to the Merc save face department).
Nope this is market manipulation pure and simple, a bit like the music industry 'x factor for tone deaf lemmings'.

[Giblet]

.... GM all over it.....

Dodge.

[autogyro]

Sorry Giblet 'Dodge'.
With all those famous and now mostly dead car names being sold all over the planet to some distant Aunts Brothers Mother and so on, one tends to loose track.

[segedunum]

"So it happens I took the liberty of doing a small investigation into the matter, and the conclusion I arrived to was rather opposite to what some of you would probably expect. After having a small chat with each party involved in the rumor (Daimler AG and Chrysler, subsequently) I found out the following. First of all, it is true, the SLS AMG isn't a true Mercedes-Benz. That is because it's an AMG, not a Dodge/Chrysler."

An amusing read, as are the comments. So someone is embarrassed, and embarrased enough to write AMG in bold and tell us what it stands for, that the SLS obviously looked like a Dodge Viper and was exposed in test photos and decided that after his own extensive investigation of calling up some 'people' it really isn't one? Wow. That's got me convinced.

You only need to look at the pictures to see they're the same chassis - same long front end, same cabin area and same rear. The pictures that emerged of it being tested in the US were as damning as it gets. I wonder what made them test there and disguise it as a Dodge Viper of all things....... There's no other explanation for it.

Look at the roof section of the Chrysler 4 Twelve and the SLM where you would naturally expect to see fewer obvious changes. It's cobbled together from a bloody Chrysler concept car. Mercedes have a stack them high and sell the expensive philosophy but I don't think they wanted to be exposed quite like this.

[NewtonMeter]

http://www.autoevolution.com/news/the-s ... 21844.html

http://www.leftlanenews.com/mercedes-sl ... viper.html

So there we have it, edmunds started a story and it snow balled...where is the evidence?

Don't fret too much about it JET. People will believe what they want to believe and consider from whom those remarks are coming from.

Their opinion SURELY won't affect the enormous success the SLS will be remembered for. It's a celebration of automotive engineering of the finest quality and anyone that truly knows what their talking about will agree, wether they like the car or not. Hell, I absolutely despise Audis. But it doesn't detract from the fact the R8 is a very very fine example of automotive engineering.

For the detractors, a car isn't bad because you want it to be. But if pretty much the entire automotive world thinks it's good, it probably is.

[xpensive]

I think you have to be pretty three-pointed thru and thru, not to see the ovious similarities in looks and concept between
both the SLS/Viper as well as the SLM/4-12?

But far more importantly, why in the world would Daimler-AMG take the trouble to develop two entirely different concepts
for the "supercar" niche, both in such a rush, unless they had a couple of already engineered platforms to begin with?

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

People will believe what they want to believe and consider from whom those remarks are coming from.

Wise words Nm.


Xpensive,

The picture of the SLM is an artistic impression. They used an R8 as the base before photoshopping the rest, now if the 4-12 and SLM look familiar its nothing but co incidental. If you think they compare, how can you explain that the Chrysler has a steel subframe and Mercedes has (reportedly)aluminum?
The length too of the Chrysler is stands at 4550mm compared to 4640 for the SLS, thats 9cms difference(not a different class by any stretch) the SLM is said to be far more compact in the and R8 -esque in size...4430 mm.

[autogyro]

I think this all started when Merc realised that the SLR being built for them by McLaren was going to be rapidly overtaken by McLarens own mid engined supercar and that the mid mounted lay out was the only sensible way to go to achieve the mandatory electric version demanded by market forces. You only have to look at the front engined hybrids at Ferrari with all their extra power train parts to see how not to do it. You end up with a block of flats laid on its side.
To save face (and money) they have cobbled up the SLS using the Viper design as a stop gap.
The SLM is a desperate move to meet the design needs of a supercar that can also be fully electric and loose the huge hole in the front.
Unfortunately Merc are not known for building light weight road performance cars (essential for an electric version) and they have chosen the wrong source for a chassis.
To achieve under 4 second 0 to 60 times and over 200 mph with an electric super car is much easier than with ic. You just put in the right electric motors and up the battery capacity. Unfortunately with a heavy car you also have to trade off a huge amount of your range against the performance needed. (SLS?)
Any performance electric car is potentialy faster than the SLS electric so long as it has space for batteries and is lighter. We are entering a new era.

[Richard]

It had never crossed my mind that this could be yet another US refugee, but hmmmmmmm:





That general chassis shape does share some remarkable similarities.

They're rebadged R8's - all the best ideas are stolen from Auto-Union

[lolzi]

They're rebadged R8's

Where did you get that from? The ME Four-Twelve was from 2004, the R8 from 2006, right? It was also said in this thread that the "SLM" was a "drawing" based on the R8, not a rebadged R8.
And I thought the R8 was actually based on the Gallardo, so going by most of this thread, we might say it's actually just a Gallardo, not an Audi?

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

+1 lolzi

If you work backwards everything stems from VW. Polo/A1 Golf/A3 Passat/A4/6 Phaeton/A8.
Just add rings and charge more!!

[segedunum]

Well yer, people will certainly see what they want to see, but with the SLS you have to have a severe problem not to recognise that that chassis has come from a Dodge Viper lineage, and no, they weren't in the US to disguise the SLS as a Viper.

The only way Mercedes can develop two cars for this sector and to rush to develop a second niche, or what they believe to be a niche, is by having two cheap and already available platforms they can build off.

Mercedes have simply brought the 'stack them high and sell them expensive' philosophy to the 'supercar' market and expect the badge to sell it. There's nothing really wrong with that if they can pull the wool over peoples' eyes, but I'm not entirely sure how successful it will be once we actually see these cars on the road. It could do a lot more harm then good to their long-term aspirations.

[autogyro]

It depends how many people read this forum.