Mercedes GP - Inauguration and 1st season

Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One. This includes race results, discussions, testing analysis etc. TV coverage and other personal questions should be in Off topic chat.
xpensive
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Re: Mercedes GP MGP W01

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Can't envision a mandatory weight-distibution, perhaps a recommendation from Pirelli? However, as I understand things, Mercedes committment to McLaren is until 2013, whereafter the new concorde/engine agreement comes into play?

Would it be in Mercedes image to stick around for an I4 turbo or even diesel regulation, I wonder.
"I spent most of my money on wine and women...I wasted the rest"

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JohnsonsEvilTwin
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Re: Mercedes GP MGP W01

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marcush. wrote:still the weight distribution is never going to explain their rise and fall of performance at a fingersnip...the performance goes from nearly there to outright inaccepatable in a matter of hours ...and thats never weight distribution as this cannot be changed from saturday to sunday
Marcush
How do you know? The fuel level can have a huge effect on the cars. Mercedes could be fast at a certain level, and pig slow at another. It has to do with weight distribution.

Expensive
Yea I think the inline 4cyl turbo is in keeping with Mercedes plans.
Most manufacturers are downsizing their engines and using turbos to boost torque in a bid to lower emissions and consumption.
and there is a mandatory weight distribution for next year.

http://paddocktalk.com/news/html/story-139583.html
More could have been done.
David Purley

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Re: Mercedes GP MGP W01

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Mandatory, like part of scrutineering, with fuel and fat driver or not?

Preposterous, but at the day and age when engine CoG is regulated, I guess anything is possible.
"I spent most of my money on wine and women...I wasted the rest"

segedunum
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Re: Mercedes GP MGP W01

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xpensive wrote:Would it be in Mercedes image to stick around for an I4 turbo or even diesel regulation, I wonder.
The game's afoot. I certainly think that engine manufacturers want to make things more interesting than they are now and make it worthwhile for their R and D, and that would certainly do it.

As far as the Mercedes team is concerned, if they have another year next year and another car like this one then the team is under threat. You can see it in Norbert Haug's face. They've already blown off Red Bull's advances towards the Mercedes engine and that decision needs to be justified considering that Mercedes would have won most of the races this year. I get the impression that they're wavering already.

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Re: Mercedes GP MGP W01

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Mandatory weight distribution? I just don't see why that should be, but then again, Red Bull's dominance might have something to do with it. I don't think any of the other teams want to have to spend time on anything they see as unnecessary. Personally, I just think it's daft because getting that right is part of the technical race.

Mind you, considering the problems Mercedes have had this year then I can see why the FOTA technical head Ross Brawn is announcing it. :wink:

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Re: Mercedes GP MGP W01

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"If the weight distribution remained free, then some would get it right by accident while others get it totally wrong. That's what we want to avoid,"

my translator shows something like this: "we screwed it, we do not know how to make it right, and we gonna do anything to prevent others from doing it better than we"

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Re: Mercedes GP MGP W01

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If the team is still around next year, which I doubt, it will probaby be under the AMG-name or whatever, this is too embarassing.

F1 is simply not what it used to be, getting kudos from beating Ferrari doen't ring the same way anymore.
"I spent most of my money on wine and women...I wasted the rest"

ggajic
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Re: Mercedes GP MGP W01

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JohnsonsEvilTwin wrote:Bottom line is Mercedes have problems they cannot solve with the W01.

1.Some say its because they are rubbish.
2.Some say its because of a lack of funds.
3.Some say its because of homologation rules.

Personally I think its points 2 and 3 that are most apt.
Zetsche has said that this is a 3 year project. Wins in year 1 were not expected, but a competitive level was expected to be shown.
This is what rankles Stuttgart, but now that the coffers are swelling again, maybe the Swabians will have it in them to pump some cash into this team.

A few AMG or HWA engineers would not go amiss either! =P~
When I lefr comment on their Facebook fan page that they have incompetent engineers and that Schumacher took to much risk involving with such team they promptly removed comment. Since truth hurts I think that 1. might come into play also :)

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Re: Mercedes GP MGP W01

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Remember this is the old BAR/Honda team which was utterly rubbish until they found a loophole in the aerodynamic rules with the DDD? Added Ross Brawn, but he's an administrator rather than engineer, starting off in F1 as a machine-operator for MrM.
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JohnsonsEvilTwin
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ggajic wrote: When I lefr comment on their Facebook fan page that they have incompetent engineers and that Schumacher took to much risk involving with such team they promptly removed comment. Since truth hurts I think that 1. might come into play also :)
But did you say why they were rubbish?

Did you offer a deep insight into that troll of a comment? No?
So i guess that they were right to remove it then.....

Expensive,

They were competitive up to the earth car disaster. I think Button won a race and finished quite high up the table one year.
Mercedes will demand more naturally. But for them to be able to call the car Mercedes, they are going to have to invest money and intellectuals to this project. Of that I'm certain. But with Mclarens £200 million buyout money and the huge sponsorship Schumi and Mercedes are drawing, they have the financial clout to compete.
What price Newey????
More could have been done.
David Purley

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Re: Mercedes GP MGP W01

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xpensive wrote:Remember this is the old BAR/Honda team which was utterly rubbish until they found a loophole in the aerodynamic rules with the DDD?
Yer, I've repeated this elsewhere. Probably more important than the DD was the front wing which gave the car very good balance. They lucked out on those two jumps. Apart from that they struggled terribly to improve the car for the rest of the year.

Schumacher and Brawn are going to have to look long and hard as to whether they have the people to start winning, and it's going to be at least three times as hard as it was when they were at Ferrari.

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Re: Mercedes GP MGP W01

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JohnsonsEvilTwin wrote:They were competitive up to the earth car disaster.
They were doing reasonably OK until they fired Geoff Willis - and then the wheels fell completely off. The Japs thought they could do it better and they were proved spectacularly wrong. That dysfunctional political situation still exists and many of the same technical people are still there.
But for them to be able to call the car Mercedes, they are going to have to invest money and intellectuals to this project. Of that I'm certain. But with Mclarens £200 million buyout money and the huge sponsorship Schumi and Mercedes are drawing, they have the financial clout to compete.
It's not that simple. Other teams have money and resources, and Mercedes are now competing directly against three teams who can win races and championships. When Schumacher and Brawn were at Ferrari they competed against Williams and McLaren in alternate years as their sole competitor and it took them four years to win a championship. Whatever sponsorship Mercedes have got as a result of Schumacher being there will soon evaporate.

twoshots
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Re: Mercedes GP MGP W01

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segedunum wrote:They've already blown off Red Bull's advances towards the Mercedes engine and that decision needs to be justified considering that Mercedes would have won most of the races this year. I get the impression that they're wavering already.
McLaren still have a veto on new engine customers and it was McLaren that stopped the Red Bull Mercedes partnership.

marcush.
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Re: Mercedes GP MGP W01

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xpensive wrote:Mandatory, like part of scrutineering, with fuel and fat driver or not?

Preposterous, but at the day and age when engine CoG is regulated, I guess anything is possible.

haha thats not possible to do ..just make some rough calculations and you will see a drivers weight has too much influence..in weight distribution...so if you got a slim and a big driver and happen not to carry ballast you might get into trouble being legal for both drivers,if there is no tolerance... :mrgreen:

as for Mercedes bowing out of F1 after this season,I don´t see that happening yet .
Or was it Mercedes Bernie was talking about when he said we might loose one of the new teams that disgraces F1??

segedunum
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Re: Mercedes GP MGP W01

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twoshots wrote:McLaren still have a veto on new engine customers and it was McLaren that stopped the Red Bull Mercedes partnership.
Ross Brawn has restated that he doesn't think Mercedes can supply another team, ergo they desperately don't want Red Bull to have their engine. That would put them under more pressure than McLaren, certainly the way things are now.