2022 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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Xyz22
Xyz22
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Joined: 16 Feb 2022, 20:05

Re: 2022 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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chrisc90 wrote:
12 Jun 2022, 23:06
Xyz22 wrote:
12 Jun 2022, 22:50
We didn't have the fastest car in the race. In the first stint RB was stronger and only with a good strategy call we found ourselves in front.

Sainz was miles off the pace and lost 6s to Leclerc and Max in 8 laps. Overall 8s behind the second RB driver.
Id have loved to see what the RB's would have done given they come out behind. Max was 13 seconds behind when he pitted so would have been interesting to see how the gap closed in the laps to come had Charles not retired. The tyre offset, IF charles didnt pit again. (i think Binotto said they were going to 2 stop) would have been interesting, given he would have come out in 2nd or 3rd on Mediums...which Ric seemed to fail to fire up against Alonso with much older hard tyres.
I think Ferrari was planning a one-stop. It would have been interesting because having tyres 9 laps fresher was a huge advantage considering tyre deg, but 12s was also a big gap to close.

f1316
f1316
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Joined: 22 Feb 2012, 18:36

Re: 2022 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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Yeah, Binotto said they were going to the end and confident tyres would have lasted: https://it.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-bi ... /10321154/

But anyway, as has been said, today was a day where the car wasn’t fastest in race pace but strategy might have come to the rescue - could possibly have been a vindication of last time where they lost a race that should have won.

But the problem is there’s always something. Just not executing on every level to the same extent as their rivals. That would be ok if I was confident this team was still building; my concern is they came into this year with an advantage (significantly more CFD and wind tunnel time) so I’m concerned this is a golden opportunity to miss.

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S D
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Joined: 17 Mar 2022, 23:00
Location: Canada

Re: 2022 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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wowgr8 wrote:
12 Jun 2022, 14:04
Everything is going up in smoke, it isn't just the ICE, it's the MGU-H, K, turbo, the only part of the engine that seems reliable is the ES and CE.

Said it before but Duchessa kept stressing there were worries about reliability during the winter and it's manifested itself during the season, price to pay for pushing so hard to find power, which they had to do, 2019 still haunting Ferrari.

I think the title is a pipe dream now, I don't think these reliability issues will vanish and both drivers have penalties to come. Taking a big picture look at it this season was always about rebuilding for Ferrari, a championship challenge came ahead of schedule and it's showing.
I think that in spite of what has transpired in the last few races, Ferrari has taken the best approach. The engine is frozen for several seasons. They pushed for maximum power knowing they could eventually correct for reliability. This said this many times.
We would not be happy with suboptimal power and high reliability fighting for 10th.
They will knock down these issues one by one under highest priority.
Perhaps after they did their reliability program they have turned up the engine and as the power is being turned up it exposes weaknesses in all areas of the system that they were unable to see before.
We complained when they didn't have good to speed, they closed that gap with new wings. They could turn the engine down until they solve the issues and we will complain about lack of speed.
Let's hope that they turn it around soon.

dialtone
dialtone
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Joined: 25 Feb 2019, 01:31

Re: 2022 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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S D wrote:
13 Jun 2022, 14:02
wowgr8 wrote:
12 Jun 2022, 14:04
Everything is going up in smoke, it isn't just the ICE, it's the MGU-H, K, turbo, the only part of the engine that seems reliable is the ES and CE.

Said it before but Duchessa kept stressing there were worries about reliability during the winter and it's manifested itself during the season, price to pay for pushing so hard to find power, which they had to do, 2019 still haunting Ferrari.

I think the title is a pipe dream now, I don't think these reliability issues will vanish and both drivers have penalties to come. Taking a big picture look at it this season was always about rebuilding for Ferrari, a championship challenge came ahead of schedule and it's showing.
I think that in spite of what has transpired in the last few races, Ferrari has taken the best approach. The engine is frozen for several seasons. They pushed for maximum power knowing they could eventually correct for reliability. This said this many times.
We would not be happy with suboptimal power and high reliability fighting for 10th.
They will knock down these issues one by one under highest priority.
Perhaps after they did their reliability program they have turned up the engine and as the power is being turned up it exposes weaknesses in all areas of the system that they were unable to see before.
We complained when they didn't have good to speed, they closed that gap with new wings. They could turn the engine down until they solve the issues and we will complain about lack of speed.
Let's hope that they turn it around soon.
You are 100% correct.

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aleks_ader
90
Joined: 28 Jul 2011, 08:40

Re: 2022 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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@SD exactly mine thinking also. So i support all engineers who push the limits. "Its easier to make fast&unreliable car winner than vice versa". Overall Binnoto was really forthcoming in those issues before. He even pre-prepare ground for disappointments this weekend. He really downplayed team expectation this season.

"So our objective is to be competitive, not to win the championship, and it would be completely wrong to turn that into: 'Let's try to win the championship because we are so competitive.'
So in short he knew there are troubles looming around. And he was right. Sadly its was ballistic. Will get worse and manybe even further DNFs. And ofc more penalties. So all people will need to accept that and be patient. Performance is just OK. No point to think about WCC/WDC now.
This management is methodological and creative. Binnoto calm openness and pragmaticism helps to shield Ferrari engineers from toxic media and fans.

For all other neutral viewers there will be at least some nice recovery drives from SAI and LEC in future.
"And if you no longer go for a gap that exists, you're no longer a racing driver..." Ayrton Senna

Xyz22
Xyz22
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Joined: 16 Feb 2022, 20:05

Re: 2022 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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At this point they will have to run the engines in "safe mode" like they did in the first few races until they understand and fix the issues.
This means that RB will highly likely be quicker in the short term, but still better than getting DNFs every race.

Aesop
Aesop
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Joined: 08 Jul 2019, 19:30

Re: 2022 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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S D wrote:
13 Jun 2022, 14:02
wowgr8 wrote:
12 Jun 2022, 14:04
Everything is going up in smoke, it isn't just the ICE, it's the MGU-H, K, turbo, the only part of the engine that seems reliable is the ES and CE.

Said it before but Duchessa kept stressing there were worries about reliability during the winter and it's manifested itself during the season, price to pay for pushing so hard to find power, which they had to do, 2019 still haunting Ferrari.

I think the title is a pipe dream now, I don't think these reliability issues will vanish and both drivers have penalties to come. Taking a big picture look at it this season was always about rebuilding for Ferrari, a championship challenge came ahead of schedule and it's showing.
I think that in spite of what has transpired in the last few races, Ferrari has taken the best approach. The engine is frozen for several seasons. They pushed for maximum power knowing they could eventually correct for reliability. This said this many times.
We would not be happy with suboptimal power and high reliability fighting for 10th.
They will knock down these issues one by one under highest priority.
Perhaps after they did their reliability program they have turned up the engine and as the power is being turned up it exposes weaknesses in all areas of the system that they were unable to see before.
We complained when they didn't have good to speed, they closed that gap with new wings. They could turn the engine down until they solve the issues and we will complain about lack of speed.
Let's hope that they turn it around soon.
Reliability upgrades are under scrutiny of the FIA and the other teams aren't they?

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organic
1055
Joined: 08 Jan 2022, 02:24
Location: Cambridge, UK

Re: 2022 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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https://it.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-fe ... /10322180/


Disassembly of Leclerc's power unit that went up in smoke on lap 20 of the Azerbaijan GP, while Charles was leading the race, began in Maranello this morning. It failed a part in the cylinder head that has never accused trouble in the Superfast's development. In Canada the Monegasque will have a new powertrain at zero kilometers, but he could use the Unit 1 turbo without going into penalty. Sainz was stopped, however, by the pump that controls the hydraulic system.

The response is hard to swallow: heat engine and turbo knockout. The 066/7 number two that crashed into Charles Leclerc's Ferrari F1-75 on lap 20 of the Azerbaijan GP, while the Monegasque was in the lead, is being disassembled in the mechanical department of the Racing Department.

The cursed six-cylinder arrived in Maranello early this morning for what can now be considered an ... autopsy, since the failure in the cylinder head resulted in damage that also extended to the turbo.
As Mattia Binotto had said as early as Sunday evening, Ferrari will go to Canada with engine 3, while it may still use the unit 1 supercharger system (as in Monaco) to avoid going into penalty.

In the engine department headed by Enrico Gualtieri, there is a lot of nervousness because what gave out, according to rumors that have filtered in, was a part that has not given problems for years and, therefore, was not a risk part. It is a part that is not manufactured in Ferrari, but is secured by a supplier who self-certifies the quality of each part.

In the analysis being performed by technicians, it may emerge what may have induced the rupture that led to the bluish smoke that came out of the red car's exhaust before forcing Leclerc to pull over for his second retirement.


The engine to be assembled in Canada will be zero-mileage and, therefore, should not fear any reliability issues, so the Cavallino's engineers will have time to figure out what actions to take and whether there will be a need to reclaim some parts in anticipation: it is certain, in fact, that Ferrari will be forced to unmark a fourth, if not a fifth engine, in the process considering a life that is proving to be significantly shorter than the 7 GPs.

Regarding the stop that resulted in Carlos Sainz's retirement on Lap 9, there are fewer mysteries: what broke down would have been the pump that controls the hydraulic system and allows several important functions of the car to be managed. A "brake by wire" warning appeared on the Spaniard's steering wheel computer display, but it is clear that the rear brake problem was an effect (the system went into protection) and not the cause of the knockout. Unusual breakdowns stirring the Cavallino.

Stops that did not seem to be determined by the performance increase sought in the challenge with Red Bull: the use of more or less pushed mappings would not have highlighted flaws in the "Superfast" engine, which, in truth, of dyno breaks added up to many in the advanced testing phase. Engine 1 was deliberated with a little less beer in its system, waiting for the expected long runs over the duration (over 7 thousand kilometers) to give the green light to push harder.

We're waiting for Ferrari to come out with the usual note with which Maranello officializes the breakdowns (and that's credit to the team headed by Binotto), while engineers are also probing the other problems that are undermining the reliability of the 066/7 engines of customer teams Haas and Alfa Romeo, struggling with different power unit packaging.


Nothing is left to chance: every clue may be useful in turning around a championship that seemed to have been born under the best auspices for Ferrari and is shattering Charles Leclerc's rainbow dreams. The game is not over and in Maranello they have not given up, knowing that they have a winning car and driver on their hands

Translation by DeepL

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codetower
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Re: 2022 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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What are the options? I know they have the first turbo, but is it a too risky to attach a part that has been used for several races to the new engine?

And assuming they bring in a new Turbo with a 10 place penalty, is it within the rules to introduce ICE #3 for practice, then #4 for race and just take the full penalty now and start from the pits? Get as many new components into the pool now and you then have plenty of time to work on the reliability issues. They cant go too far with a single Turbo, their first engine with all those miles, and just one ICE for the next few races, practices and a sprint coming soon.

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chrisc90
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Joined: 23 Feb 2022, 21:22

Re: 2022 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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I don’t think you can take the penalty like that
Mess with the Bull - you get the horns.

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organic
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Joined: 08 Jan 2022, 02:24
Location: Cambridge, UK

Re: 2022 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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codetower wrote:
14 Jun 2022, 14:40
What are the options? I know they have the first turbo, but is it a too risky to attach a part that has been used for several races to the new engine?

And assuming they bring in a new Turbo with a 10 place penalty, is it within the rules to introduce ICE #3 for practice, then #4 for race and just take the full penalty now and start from the pits? Get as many new components into the pool now and you then have plenty of time to work on the reliability issues. They cant go too far with a single Turbo, their first engine with all those miles, and just one ICE for the next few races, practices and a sprint coming soon.
If you take two new engines in one weekend, only the most recently added engine is entered into the pool. You cannot use the first new engine again. This is to prevent teams stockpiling engines like they did pre-2017.

My expectation is that they use TC1 at Canada and take fresh components in everything else, taking them up to the limit in everything. This sets them up to take TC4 along with the rest of their 4th power unit (4th ice, 4th mgu-h etc) at a later race (perhaps it would have to be Silverstone to limit TC1's mileage) to minimize the number of races at which they'll receive grid drops, albeit accepting a back-of-the-grid start as opposed to 10-place for just TC.

If TC1 cannot reliably do Canada then a 10-place grid drop is inevitable.

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F1NAC
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Joined: 31 Mar 2013, 22:35

Re: 2022 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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That is a massive risk. That TC1 has a lot of mileage.... if they stuck that into PU3, it has to do FP1,2,3 Q and R. Very risky....

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codetower
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Joined: 15 Sep 2020, 16:47

Re: 2022 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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organic wrote:
14 Jun 2022, 14:52
codetower wrote:
14 Jun 2022, 14:40
What are the options? I know they have the first turbo, but is it a too risky to attach a part that has been used for several races to the new engine?

And assuming they bring in a new Turbo with a 10 place penalty, is it within the rules to introduce ICE #3 for practice, then #4 for race and just take the full penalty now and start from the pits? Get as many new components into the pool now and you then have plenty of time to work on the reliability issues. They cant go too far with a single Turbo, their first engine with all those miles, and just one ICE for the next few races, practices and a sprint coming soon.
If you take two new engines in one weekend, only the most recently added engine is entered into the pool. You cannot use the first new engine again. This is to prevent teams stockpiling engines like they did pre-2017.

My expectation is that they use TC1 at Canada and take fresh components in everything else, taking them up to the limit in everything. This sets them up to take TC4 along with the rest of their 4th power unit (4th ice, 4th mgu-h etc) at a later race (perhaps it would have to be Silverstone to limit TC1's mileage) to minimize the number of races at which they'll receive grid drops, albeit accepting a back-of-the-grid start as opposed to 10-place for just TC.

If TC1 cannot reliably do Canada then a 10-place grid drop is inevitable.
F1NAC wrote:
14 Jun 2022, 15:00
That is a massive risk. That TC1 has a lot of mileage.... if they stuck that into PU3, it has to do FP1,2,3 Q and R. Very risky....

Thank you for the clarification, organic. Although I do see the argument for going with the first turbo here, I personally have to agree with F1NAC, I think it is a bit risky. The best option, IMO, is to take the 10 place grid drop with the new Turbo here, but as you said, go with the fresh components from every other element. Maybe with a little good fortune, Leclerc can maybe get a podium (3rd) or even 4th. Then you bought some time to take a full hit at SPA where you can overtake, or even Hungary, with the new Hybrid spec as well, and hopefully the reliability (wink, wink, performance) upgrade.

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wogx
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Re: 2022 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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Image
Kukułka zwyczajna, kukułka pospolita – nazwy ludowe: gżegżółka, zazula (Cuculus canorus) – gatunek średniego ptaka wędrownego z podrodziny kukułek (Cuculinae) w rodzinie kukułkowatych (Cuculidae). Jedyny w Europie Środkowej pasożyt lęgowy. Zamieszkuje strefę umiarkowaną.

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chrisc90
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Re: 2022 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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The words ‘short term fix’ doesn’t sound reassuring for the Ferrari fans
Mess with the Bull - you get the horns.