2024 Mclaren Formula 1 Team

[basti313]

I can agree with that. When I saw Hulkenberg moving it was obvious VSC would be called off, the team should have been ready and instructed Norris to abort the pitstop if VSC ended. There seems to have been enough time for that.

Plenty. I was just sitting there and thinking, "ok, now they can not pit anymore". I was genuinely surprised to see them going into the pits 10sec later.
They would have had the free stop 2 laps later...

But even if we got a perfect outcome, Norris stays out takes the lead and finishes the race P1, it is very likely that Verstappen would get P2. This would mean about 36 point lead with 3 races to go, the dream would be alive but it would be super hard to achieve it.

Verstappen with his drive from P17 sealed his championship.

Yes. The championship was lost before. But my bet is, that Monza, Spa and this race will be the core issue where they will miss the points in the end.

[Ben1980]

the only problem this season is that norris always had upgrades for many races before piastri, they would be closer if it wasn't for that

How many, and what do you think impact was? But also, why would you give upgrades to the one behind always?

That's not what he is saying, he's saying that is part of the reason for the points gap.

There probably is maybe 10 or so points there, to be fair, but Oscar is definitely not as fast as Lando, he's just more efficient at converting the pace he does have into points. Both need to up their game, that's why over the last 11 races or so there is barely anything in it between them.

It just seems to be quite a constant remark, seeming pointing to Lando being ahead because of the upgrades. And maybe, maybe not. And I'm not sure since Miami the upgrades have had a huge impact on that cars pace.

Both do need to improve to win a title, and mo guarantee they will challenge next year. But, its been a good learning curve for both, showing positives and limitations.

Much better than ladt few years when 7th was good.

[Ben1980]

Yeah, Max did really great to put himself into a position where he could capitalize on the red flag. He drove super well, he was patient when he needed to be and fast when it was important. But it could have easily backfired. Without Colapinto crash we probably stay under safety car and Verstappen needs to pit into traffic again to take new tires.

Well, that is a bit short, there were multiple points leading to the outcome and I do not see much "backfire":
- What actually hurt Lando and Russel the most was the wrong call for the pitstop at the VSC. Russel clearly said it after the race and this really put both back. That cost both of them more than 10sec (I guess even more, I do not have the lap timing available now). The call was just blatantly wrong and there was enough time to correct when they saw Hulkenberg driving away.

I can agree with that. When I saw Hulkenberg moving it was obvious VSC would be called off, the team should have been ready and instructed Norris to abort the pitstop if VSC ended. There seems to have been enough time for that.

But even if we got a perfect outcome, Norris stays out takes the lead and finishes the race P1, it is very likely that Verstappen would get P2. This would mean about 36 point lead with 3 races to go, the dream would be alive but it would be super hard to achieve it.

Verstappen with his drive from P17 sealed his championship.

I think Max breezes past Lando even if he stayed out. Max was too fast.

[mwillems]

How many, and what do you think impact was? But also, why would you give upgrades to the one behind always?

That's not what he is saying, he's saying that is part of the reason for the points gap.

There probably is maybe 10 or so points there, to be fair, but Oscar is definitely not as fast as Lando, he's just more efficient at converting the pace he does have into points. Both need to up their game, that's why over the last 11 races or so there is barely anything in it between them.

It just seems to be quite a constant remark, seeming pointing to Lando being ahead because of the upgrades. And maybe, maybe not. And I'm not sure since Miami the upgrades have had a huge impact on that cars pace.

Both do need to improve to win a title, and mo guarantee they will challenge next year. But, its been a good learning curve for both, showing positives and limitations.

Much better than ladt few years when 7th was good.

Much like the nonsense when many were knocking Oscar and putting Lando on a pedestal and claiming number 1, in actually delivery there's nothing between them for the best part of the season.

We've got two drivers who get a good amount of points but aren't yet maximising their potential. Bodes well for the team. Next year we should be competitive but who knows what happens in the reset of 26.

If we want a WDC then one of the drivers needs to show on the track that they can make it theirs, from the start, because this may be our last shot for a while.

[FittingMechanics]

I think Max breezes past Lando even if he stayed out. Max was too fast.

Do you remember how Ocon gapped Verstappen between red flag and last safety car?

It's possible Max breezes past Norris, I just wanted to say that even if things went perfectly on "our" side, it still would be at best a 7 points swing toward Lando. Not really making a big dent in the championship picture. You still need to be almost perfect to gain 12+ points per race to the end of the season.

Big opportunity was if Max would be unable to score more than 5-6 points, then we would get the swing we needed to have a realistic chance in last three races. That was my point.

Max beat us, even if Norris won yesterday, Max did enough to protect his championship. That was what I am trying to say.

[Ben1980]

That's not what he is saying, he's saying that is part of the reason for the points gap.

There probably is maybe 10 or so points there, to be fair, but Oscar is definitely not as fast as Lando, he's just more efficient at converting the pace he does have into points. Both need to up their game, that's why over the last 11 races or so there is barely anything in it between them.

It just seems to be quite a constant remark, seeming pointing to Lando being ahead because of the upgrades. And maybe, maybe not. And I'm not sure since Miami the upgrades have had a huge impact on that cars pace.

Both do need to improve to win a title, and mo guarantee they will challenge next year. But, its been a good learning curve for both, showing positives and limitations.

Much better than ladt few years when 7th was good.

Much like the nonsense when many were knocking Oscar and putting Lando on a pedestal and claiming number 1, in actually delivery there's nothing between them for the best part of the season.

We've got two drivers who get a good amount of points but aren't yet maximising their potential. Bodes well for the team. Next year we should be competitive but who knows what happens in the reset of 26.

If we want a WDC then one of the drivers needs to show on the track that they can make it theirs, from the start, because this may be our last shot for a while.

This is where you sort the men from the boys, at the front. It's easy to look good dragging a poor car forward occasionally, that's what gets you noticed. The next part is learning at the front, and that's not always easy. And that's where they are now.

I do think both have impressed this year, but, this is a whole new game, and next season has to be on it straight away.

Whoever Red Bull gave will not be as good as Max, I'm unsure about Lewis and Leclerc that's 2 dogs in the same team.

And I think Russell isn't a team leader and Kimi will be above his level.

They need to show they've learnt from this season.

[basti313]

The next part is learning at the front, and that's not always easy.

???
The main errors were:
- Not starting good, loosing to many places at the start.
- Bottling strategy calls.
- Getting overtaken on the first lap by your teammate.

I really do not see, what you have to learn and could not learn before...if you want to make it one point, then it was simply the starts. And these are even more difficult in the middle of the field.

[Ben1980]

The next part is learning at the front, and that's not always easy.

???
The main errors were:
- Not starting good, loosing to many places at the start.
- Bottling strategy calls.
- Getting overtaken on the first lap by your teammate.

I really do not see, what you have to learn and could not learn before...if you want to make it one point, then it was simply the starts. And these are even more difficult in the middle of the field.

It's completely different going from the start than say 8th. It's completely different going from a mid pack runner, to a front runner.

I dont think any real issues were raised about Landos starts over previous years, when starting 7th or below. He gets at the front, and it's not the same.

Drivers rarely jump into front running cars, and when they do it's about learning.

Strategy calls are different aswell, you have to take different things into account, you are also under much less scrutiny, when challenging for 2 points over 25.

Drivers learn, teams learn. Problems come if they don't.

[Darth-Piekus]

I would like to give my honest opinion. Hear me out before passing judgement. I might play devil's advocate and some may be hurt if I say it but I have to say it. Do you know that the line between success and failure is very thin? People these last two days tend to ignore many factors that lead to that result and tend to overexaggerate the result. Sure I agree that Lando screwed yet another start and I agree that Max drove a masterful race but let's see.
1)He started 17th. 4 places were vacant as they started from the pitlane so 13th. Two cars were the B-Team who got orders to let him pass against the rules of the competition so 11th. After that he passed 4 cars and none of them even made an attempt to defend and I was dissapointed in Piastri not even trying to defend.
2)The first car that defended was Charles Leclerc and Max never managed to pass him. He was stuck for 26 laps.
3)The VSC ended the moment both George and Lando entered the entrance of the pit lane. Nobody could predict that and that damaged their safe pit stop window.
4)Then there was a normal SC that bunched up all the cars. Norris passed Rusell and he was at that point faster than Max and the two Alpines by 4 seconds per lap. Still the SC bunched up the field and it's safe to say that the first three had to enter or risk getting passed. In any case you would expect that Max and both Alpines would have been at the end of the pack until Colapinto somehow lost the car on Safety Car speeds. The Red Flag was a total lucky event noone could predict giving them a free pit stop.
5)Under normal circumstances Max would have been dead last without the Red Flag and then nothing suggests he would be able to pass everyone considering he couldn't pass Leclerc not to mention he would be stuck in the dirty air. I will agree that he would have been on the top 10 but not in the podium places.

Good job for his masterful race but let's not overexxagerate. This could have all turned into disaster easily.

In the meantime some constructive critisism for Lando Norris also. Lando Norris's year was way worse than 2021, 2022 and 2023. I feel like his starts have become worse this year and I'm not sure if it was the car or him. His defence was also much better and he has to improve on that again considering he drove brilliant defences in Sochi and Monza back in 2021 with an inferior car. I can give him some leeway due to his first time challenging for a title but next year he must improve tremendously.

[basti313]

Drivers rarely jump into front running cars, and when they do it's about learning.

I have never seen a driver jump into a front running or whatever car and bottling the starts with this consistency. Did you see Leclerc or Russel doing regularly bad starts?
I mean....even if you are not the best starter, getting more starts well than bad should be a possibility for a F1 driver. I really feel sorry, but this is a running gag, not something "about learning".

Same for strategy. They had two wet races this season and bottled the strategy in both. How do you want to learn this? There is no learning, you have one or two races per year. That is a topic of awareness and being a midfield team is nothing one would accept as a reason for being unaware. I do not believe Zak is happy with the explanation on "we were in the midfield" for bottling the strategy...

[Darth-Piekus]

I have never seen a driver jump into a front running or whatever car and bottling the starts with this consistency. Did you see Leclerc or Russel doing regularly bad starts?
I mean....even if you are not the best starter, getting more starts well than bad should be a possibility for a F1 driver. I really feel sorry, but this is a running gag, not something "about learning".

Same for strategy. They had two wet races this season and bottled the strategy in both. How do you want to learn this? There is no learning, you have one or two races per year. That is a topic of awareness and being a midfield team is nothing one would accept as a reason for being unaware. I do not believe Zak is happy with the explanation on "we were in the midfield" for bottling the strategy...

I am not sure why that is happening this year. Norris was much better in terms of strategy, wet races and race starts the previous 3 years.

[daren_p]

On the initial start, do we know yet if it was actually Lando's fault? It was the second phase again, after the poor starts they both had in the Dutch GP, I believe they made some changes & Lando hasn't had this issue from what I recall? As was mentioned above, maybe the change didn't get applied to the wet map? There was also talk about the other side having less water, any truth to that? And finally he was on the racing line, which typically has less grip on a wet track, did this play some part?

[FittingMechanics]

Drivers rarely jump into front running cars, and when they do it's about learning.

I have never seen a driver jump into a front running or whatever car and bottling the starts with this consistency. Did you see Leclerc or Russel doing regularly bad starts?
I mean....even if you are not the best starter, getting more starts well than bad should be a possibility for a F1 driver. I really feel sorry, but this is a running gag, not something "about learning".

Same for strategy. They had two wet races this season and bottled the strategy in both. How do you want to learn this? There is no learning, you have one or two races per year. That is a topic of awareness and being a midfield team is nothing one would accept as a reason for being unaware. I do not believe Zak is happy with the explanation on "we were in the midfield" for bottling the strategy...

Zak is working on it.
Red Bull head of F1 strategy Courtenay to join McLaren
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/red- ... /10657702/

[ScuderiaLeo]

I have never seen a driver jump into a front running or whatever car and bottling the starts with this consistency. Did you see Leclerc or Russel doing regularly bad starts?
I mean....even if you are not the best starter, getting more starts well than bad should be a possibility for a F1 driver. I really feel sorry, but this is a running gag, not something "about learning".

Same for strategy. They had two wet races this season and bottled the strategy in both. How do you want to learn this? There is no learning, you have one or two races per year. That is a topic of awareness and being a midfield team is nothing one would accept as a reason for being unaware. I do not believe Zak is happy with the explanation on "we were in the midfield" for bottling the strategy...

To be fair to Norris... despite Russell's excellence in this past race, he isn't actually a very good starter on average. His net positions on start is in the negatives. Sainz is also in the negatives. It's not like Norris is the only driver semi-consistently losing positions on starts.

[basti313]

I have never seen a driver jump into a front running or whatever car and bottling the starts with this consistency. Did you see Leclerc or Russel doing regularly bad starts?
I mean....even if you are not the best starter, getting more starts well than bad should be a possibility for a F1 driver. I really feel sorry, but this is a running gag, not something "about learning".

Same for strategy. They had two wet races this season and bottled the strategy in both. How do you want to learn this? There is no learning, you have one or two races per year. That is a topic of awareness and being a midfield team is nothing one would accept as a reason for being unaware. I do not believe Zak is happy with the explanation on "we were in the midfield" for bottling the strategy...

To be fair to Norris... despite Russell's excellence in this past race, he isn't actually a very good starter on average. His net positions on start is in the negatives. Sainz is also in the negatives. It's not like Norris is the only driver semi-consistently losing positions on starts.

No, he is the worst. By far, outliers removed, he is the worst current driver on the first lap:
https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comme ... /#lightbox

On the initial start, do we know yet if it was actually Lando's fault?

Come on...