2021 British Grand Prix - Silverstone, July 16 - 18

[Just_a_fan]

But who cares, this doesn't pay our bills.

Exactly. Precisely nothing that is said in here will have any affect onF1 and nothing in F1 will have an affect on us. Other than our own emotional responses and that's down to our own choice.

[GOAT]

I truly wonder how discussion would have been if things happened the other way around.

Obviously exactly the same but with roles and attitudes reversed amongst Verstappen, Hamilton, Horner, Marko and Wolff, and several of the less objective posters on here.

Remember this reply. ^^^

I have the feeling this will not be the last contact between these two.

Should it be Hamilton who crashes out next time, ceteris paribus (Max missing the apex), then we will witness how the ‘objective posters’ like yourself will behave.

[El Scorchio]

I truly wonder how discussion would have been if things happened the other way around.

Obviously exactly the same but with roles and attitudes reversed amongst Verstappen, Hamilton, Horner, Marko and Wolff, and several of the less objective posters on here.

Remember this reply. ^^^

I have the feeling this will not be the last contact between these two.

Should it be Hamilton who crashes out next time, ceteris paribus (Max missing the apex), then we will witness how the ‘objective posters’ like yourself will behave.

I don't think it'll be the last contact either.

Pretty much the same. Actually on this thread I said the penalty was going to come and was justified when it did come.

Judging from the sort of thing you've been posting in the last 24 hours though, those in glass houses and all that....

For the record the most uncomfortable thing will be Horner and Marko trying to justify it to the world, as we know they will, in light of the highly strong stance they took on yesterday's incident. Presumably they'll be pushing for things like huge punishments and race bans for their own drivers.

[Big Tea]

I am not getting into the HO NO HE didn't, OH YES HE did bit, but I notice form that clip the very same wheel that self-destructed in the incident was in am almost exact same collision a couple of corners before. I don't think I have ever seen a rim completely detach like that ? Possibly it only failed so catastrophically because it was already damaged? Had the race continued it may well have let go at a later point

[NathanOlder]

I truly wonder how discussion would have been if things happened the other way around.

Obviously exactly the same but with roles and attitudes reversed amongst Verstappen, Hamilton, Horner, Marko and Wolff, and several of the less objective posters on here.

Remember this reply. ^^^

I have the feeling this will not be the last contact between these two.

Should it be Hamilton who crashes out next time, ceteris paribus (Max missing the apex), then we will witness how the ‘objective posters’ like yourself will behave.

But it did happen the other way around, less than 24hrs earlier. The difference was, Lewis knew it was crazy to try that move and didnt want to end up in the wall at 160mph.

[nzjrs]

I am not getting into the HO NO HE didn't, OH YES HE did bit, but I notice form that clip the very same wheel that self-destructed in the incident was in am almost exact same collision a couple of corners before. I don't think I have ever seen a rim completely detach like that ? Possibly it only failed so catastrophically because it was already damaged? Had the race continued it may well have let go at a later point

Maybe it's terminology but to me the rim looked intact - it was the rubber that came completely off?

[dtro]

But who cares, this doesn't pay our bills.

Exactly. Precisely nothing that is said in here will have any affect onF1 and nothing in F1 will have an affect on us. Other than our own emotional responses and that's down to our own choice.

Easy to get charged over all of this stuff. I try to keep it civil/don't mull over a race more than 24 hrs. Which may be up as of this post haha.

[El Scorchio]

I am not getting into the HO NO HE didn't, OH YES HE did bit, but I notice form that clip the very same wheel that self-destructed in the incident was in am almost exact same collision a couple of corners before. I don't think I have ever seen a rim completely detach like that ? Possibly it only failed so catastrophically because it was already damaged? Had the race continued it may well have let go at a later point

Maybe it's terminology but to me the rim looked intact - it was the rubber that came completely off?

I thought that as well. And it was immediate and didn't even look like the tyre had failed, as it seemed all in one piece as it came off. Very unusual. I'd have expected either the tyre to rapidly deflate and shred, or for the whole wheel to immediately have broken off from the suspension.

Edit- or actually, having just watched it again, for the whole thing to remain intact. I wonder if lateral friction between tyre and tarmac as the car started turning ripped it off the wheel. But then I'd expect to see that every time a driver spins at a reasonable speed.

[RZS10]

I am not getting into the HO NO HE didn't, OH YES HE did bit, but I notice form that clip the very same wheel that self-destructed in the incident was in am almost exact same collision a couple of corners before. I don't think I have ever seen a rim completely detach like that ? Possibly it only failed so catastrophically because it was already damaged? Had the race continued it may well have let go at a later point

Maybe it's terminology but to me the rim looked intact - it was the rubber that came completely off?

Check out the onboard footage frame by frame with [,][.] you can see circular parts of the rim fly off.

1 - Not sure about this one, might be from Lewis' rim or some aero fairing from inside Max' rim.


2 - This one is def. from Max' rear rim.


The smaller part (1) even ended up hitting Lewis' halo.

[langedweil]

I truly wonder how discussion would have been if things happened the other way around.

PZ wouldn't have come back!

[langedweil]

But it did happen the other way around, less than 24hrs earlier. The difference was, Lewis knew it was crazy to try that move and didnt want to end up in the wall at 160mph.

It did not happen ..

[PlatinumZealot]

Max can´t be considered faultless here. When a car gets your inside and next corners is a high speed corner, 95% of driver will concede the position, and that´s for a reason. Being extremelly aggresive is ok, but when things goes south you can´t be too surprised, this is the risk and the reason most drivers would have let Lewis pass instead of trying to keep position at the outside of a high speed corner

I was surprised max didn't go further left at the last moment, so he could take a wider and thus faster line. He would have had substantially more speed than Lewis, and would have passed him on exit or part way down the strait.

Long game, short game. Max was trying to win that corner. To stamp his authority on Hamilton. He wasn't thinking about the race, just that moment. Sadly for him, his opponent decided not to yield this one time in the way he had only 20 seconds before. It's a life lesson for Max. What does he take away from it? Hopefully he'll think a bit about how best to beat Hamilton. Sadly, I fear he'll walk back in to Horner's office today and be fed the lines that Horner was giving out about how terrible it all was, and he'll learn nothing.

As Nico Rosberg learned with Lewis, Max will learn too that Lewis is a master of finding the "Grey areas". He won't beat Lewis using brute force alone. He has to start thinking about the rule books now.

[mwillems]

As has already been stated by the race director, outcomes/consequences (real or potential) are not to be considered when deciding on the punishment for a given incident.

Exactly, they applied that with both incidents. Which in Hamilton eyes didnt make sense when they used that with the vettel bottas crash.

In Lewis' defense, he was likely politicking for Valtteri in the first one.

This time, Horner and Marko are doing the same. I think most just roll their eyes at Marko anymore and Horner, well, it's his job, but he also is weirdly obsessed with Max as Danny Ric pointed out. I hope for Max's sake, they sit him down, and tell him while they appreciate the fight, he needs to learn to give some when he has that big of a lead in the points. I don't think they will as will Jos and I worry he doesn't learn from it.

And outcomes / consequences shouldn't be considered when deciding punishment in sport.

Max is lucky in that he has his Dad and I think his Dad would probably be honest with him.

[Jolle]

I was surprised max didn't go further left at the last moment, so he could take a wider and thus faster line. He would have had substantially more speed than Lewis, and would have passed him on exit or part way down the strait.

Long game, short game. Max was trying to win that corner. To stamp his authority on Hamilton. He wasn't thinking about the race, just that moment. Sadly for him, his opponent decided not to yield this one time in the way he had only 20 seconds before. It's a life lesson for Max. What does he take away from it? Hopefully he'll think a bit about how best to beat Hamilton. Sadly, I fear he'll walk back in to Horner's office today and be fed the lines that Horner was giving out about how terrible it all was, and he'll learn nothing.

As Nico Rosberg learned with Lewis, Max will learn too that Lewis is a master of finding the "Grey areas". He won't beat Lewis using brute force alone. He has to start thinking about the rule books now.

Verstappen himself was responsible for several amendments to the rules of engagement over the years. Normally it's verstappen that sticks his car in places nobody ever tried and gets applauded for it (and many other drivers are on record that they give verstappen extra space because he races by the "I leave it up to you if we crash or not"). I remember a long discussion about the Austrian GP two years ago, Verstappen and Leclerc. Or Baku with Ric.

[mwillems]

Long game, short game. Max was trying to win that corner. To stamp his authority on Hamilton. He wasn't thinking about the race, just that moment. Sadly for him, his opponent decided not to yield this one time in the way he had only 20 seconds before. It's a life lesson for Max. What does he take away from it? Hopefully he'll think a bit about how best to beat Hamilton. Sadly, I fear he'll walk back in to Horner's office today and be fed the lines that Horner was giving out about how terrible it all was, and he'll learn nothing.

As Nico Rosberg learned with Lewis, Max will learn too that Lewis is a master of finding the "Grey areas". He won't beat Lewis using brute force alone. He has to start thinking about the rule books now.

Verstappen himself was responsible for several amendments to the rules of engagement over the years. Normally it's verstappen that sticks his car in places nobody ever tried and gets applauded for it (and many other drivers are on record that they give verstappen extra space because he races by the "I leave it up to you if we crash or not"). I remember a long discussion about the Austrian GP two years ago, Verstappen and Leclerc. Or Baku with Ric.

And the rules regarding multiple steering adjustments in the braking zone, for which clarifications were released.