McLaren MP4-26 Mercedes

A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter do not belong here.
bogi
bogi
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Joined: 02 Jul 2010, 12:27

Re: McLaren MP4-26 Mercedes

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Btw, I think they will introduce new front wing, probably to aid more air to the sidepod overcuts, because this one is designed for last year undercuted sidepods.

Raptor22
Raptor22
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Joined: 07 Apr 2009, 22:48

Re: McLaren MP4-26 Mercedes

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Just_a_fan wrote:I think the nose shape and the snow plough below are designed to generate a vortex that run along the tub and through the sidepod void. Last year that vortex would have aided cooling - indeed ISTR seeing a flo-vis shot of the airflow following this path towards the sidepod.

The snow plough will also help to make the centre of the wing create some downforce too although I think that is a secondary consideration.
For sure there will be a vortex flowing along the sides of the tub but onw would need windtunnel data to ascertain what is function is.

Owen.C93
Owen.C93
177
Joined: 24 Jul 2010, 17:52

Re: McLaren MP4-26 Mercedes

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I don't think they will need to change the front wing too much, they are still trying to get the air in the same place, be it radiators or now a gaping hole.
Motorsport Graduate in search of team experience ;)

speedsense
speedsense
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Joined: 31 May 2009, 19:11
Location: California, USA

Re: McLaren MP4-26 Mercedes

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horse wrote:
richard_leeds wrote: Clearly you don't want air under because you want low pressure under the floor.
Sure you do. More air = higher velocity = lower pressure.
More air under the floor isn't the same as free air hitting a wing. The floor is in the wake of too many things in front of it to receive clean, uninterrupted flow. Wheels and tires, front wings, changes in roll, rake, warp, heave and lastly the undulating ground, all influence the flow under the floor. Preventing air from going under is more controllable for lowering pressure, than allowing turbulent air to enter, raising pressure instead of lowering it. IMHO.
"Driving a car as fast as possible (in a race) is all about maintaining the highest possible acceleration level in the appropriate direction." Peter Wright,Techical Director, Team Lotus

volarchico
volarchico
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Joined: 26 Feb 2010, 07:27

Re: McLaren MP4-26 Mercedes

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PNSD wrote:That picture has reminded me...

I cant imagine the rakes are gathering useful info in yaw. Likewise the ones above seem to feature well within the wheels wake but pitots generally hate any non-uniform flow.

So are they primarily there for steady-state slow speed data validation? And if so, what use is that when an F1 is never really in a steady-state, is constantly in yaw and pitch and often at high speed?

Am I missing something really simple here?
You can attach those pitot to high-speed pressure transducers which can measure thousands of samples per second (capture the unsteady flow characteristics). Also, if I remember correctly, a pitot system can measure fairly accurately up to nearly 20 deg yaw (rule of thumb). How much yaw do these cars really see? Turning is not necessarily yaw.

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ringo
230
Joined: 29 Mar 2009, 10:57

Re: McLaren MP4-26 Mercedes

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There seems to be a general acceptance that vortices are good. They are really undesirable, and are usually only used in areas with poor flow and low energy that may see a benefit from the vortex pulling air from one zone to another.
It's not something you want to introduce in good quality flow.

Mclaren's tapered nose creates a little down-force, but i think it's mainly for vision and low COG.
For Sure!!

Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
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Joined: 31 Jan 2010, 20:37

Re: McLaren MP4-26 Mercedes

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Interesting Ringo but why then are the cars covered in devices that are designed to generate vortices? Part of the reason is that rules prevent bodywork being placed in certain areas - areas that the designers would almost certainly place bodywork if they could. In order to get around this, the designers use vortex generators to get air to go where they want it to go.
If you are more fortunate than others, build a larger table not a taller fence.

PNSD
PNSD
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Joined: 03 Apr 2006, 18:10

Re: McLaren MP4-26 Mercedes

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volarchico wrote:
PNSD wrote:That picture has reminded me...

I cant imagine the rakes are gathering useful info in yaw. Likewise the ones above seem to feature well within the wheels wake but pitots generally hate any non-uniform flow.

So are they primarily there for steady-state slow speed data validation? And if so, what use is that when an F1 is never really in a steady-state, is constantly in yaw and pitch and often at high speed?

Am I missing something really simple here?
You can attach those pitot to high-speed pressure transducers which can measure thousands of samples per second (capture the unsteady flow characteristics). Also, if I remember correctly, a pitot system can measure fairly accurately up to nearly 20 deg yaw (rule of thumb). How much yaw do these cars really see? Turning is not necessarily yaw.
Ahh, never thought about high-speed tranducers! 20 degrees? Sounds abit much, the % error will be well above 10%... I suspect if they are measuring whilst in a dynamic mode then they are spending alot on optimum pitots for yaw.

Good point about turning and yaw...

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ringo
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Joined: 29 Mar 2009, 10:57

Re: McLaren MP4-26 Mercedes

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Raptor22 wrote:
Just_a_fan wrote:I think the nose shape and the snow plough below are designed to generate a vortex that run along the tub and through the sidepod void. Last year that vortex would have aided cooling - indeed ISTR seeing a flo-vis shot of the airflow following this path towards the sidepod.

The snow plough will also help to make the centre of the wing create some downforce too although I think that is a secondary consideration.
For sure there will be a vortex flowing along the sides of the tub but onw would need windtunnel data to ascertain what is function is.
It curls over the side away from the wheels and in towards the driver.
IIRC i did the W01 nose last year and made that observation. It's more like a swirl though since it doesn't do a full circle before it turns down inside the cockpit.

I would say the wheels would affect the Mclaren's low shoulders more than anything else.
For Sure!!

snowy
snowy
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Joined: 14 Feb 2010, 13:14

Re: McLaren MP4-26 Mercedes

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McLaren's reliability issues appear to be directly related to their preferred exhaust configuration.

According to Autosport the MP4-26's planned exhaust exit is down the centre of the diffuser. Which Explains why no one was able to find it.

Unfortunately there is not enough air to keep the exhaust from damaging any number of parts. Which explains why they were carrying out lots of very short runs and telling reporters that they had run out of spare parts.

Having failed to improve the situation and reliability they opted, temporarily, for a less radical configuration. Hoping that Lewis could put some miles on the car on the last two days of Barcelona testing. This they succeeding in doing, whilst also showing off a patently slow and ill handling car.

kalinka
kalinka
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Joined: 19 Feb 2010, 00:01
Location: Hungary

Re: McLaren MP4-26 Mercedes

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If it's true, it just prove my idea that neither of the teams has a precise simulation software for heat distribution in real world, so they have to prove it on track. It would explain lot of things regarding McLarens testing methods too. Maybe they can't solve it in garage on track, but now they have all the data they need to do it properly. If they were a littlebit fortunate, the heat shielding would be enough, but maybe it's not the case. We see some similar things at Ferrari too, they were experimenting with different heat shielding options too on rear crash structure. So I think McLaren will not be forced to rethink the exhaust position, they just have to add more heat shielding. Of course it'll add some weight to the rear, but if rhay can run 90-100 laps with current shielding, it wont make a big difference. It's not necessary to reply me I'm wrong - it's very much possible that I'm wrong :) It's just a theory :)

warmasice
warmasice
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Joined: 04 Apr 2006, 00:49

Re: McLaren MP4-26 Mercedes

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Quote from BBC website:

McLaren driver Jenson Button reports he has returned to work on the 2011 car at the team's headquarters. Button says on the social networking site Twitter: "Morning guys, two days of photo shoots, filming and interviews done, now at the McLaren Technology Centre in the simulator making our car faster!"

You'd think they would get their priorities straight and not waste two days of photo shoots, filming and interviews?!... especially when their car is not working!

donskar
donskar
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Joined: 03 Feb 2007, 16:41
Location: Cardboard box, end of Boulevard of Broken Dreams

Re: McLaren MP4-26 Mercedes

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They've got their priorities perfectly straight:
#1A Keep sponsors happy so money keeps rolling in while . . .
#1B Get the tech guys focused on fixing the effing car!
Enzo Ferrari was a great man. But he was not a good man. -- Phil Hill

feynman
feynman
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Joined: 02 Mar 2010, 20:36

Re: McLaren MP4-26 Mercedes

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[...]
Drivers drive, engineers develop cars.
Last edited by Steven on 26 Feb 2011, 02:07, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: No need for sarcasm to stir the pot

nacho
nacho
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Joined: 04 Sep 2009, 08:38

Re: McLaren MP4-26 Mercedes

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I'm sure while Jenson and Lewis aren't in the simulator Paffett is there.