Red Bull RB9 Renault

[aral]

Is it time to talk about RBR's traction control again? Once again vettels car has unbelievable traction off the slow corners. He's able to get back to the gas before the apex and drive away from anyone. Its not about the areo or exhaust, newey has found a way to have (legal) traction control and the other teams don't seem to have figured it out. The season is over.

Do you want to know what the rbr traction control is called? VRF (Vettels right foot!)

I know Seb is good, but he doesn't operate the cylinders mate . Red Bull has the most developed throttle maps. Also they have got the diffuser working again. But it helps to have to best driver also of course. TC is not allowed, but the way the RBR9 is sounding coming out of corners, suggest that engine is doing different compared to other cars even other Renault powered cars.

Maybe you are missing the point. Vettel might just use the throttle a bit differently.... a better balance between engine speed and grip! After all, Webber has the same car and presumably the same engine map, but he has not got the same ability to keep going on used rubber. Don't forget, Vettel was still putting in fast laps when he was still on worn supersofts. Mybe he has found that if they go off, they can also come back again?

[SectorOne]

Or he´s simply in free air compared to Webber.

[henra]

the TAG ECU won't allow so easily to implement a Traction Control without FIA noticing it.

[shelly]

Strikes ahead of rear tire? Photo please.

You can see them in front of the tyres in the following pic:

https://twitter.com/Jamesallenonf1/stat ... 7065773056

This picture suggests that maybe the two strakes do not produce 2 counter rotating vortices for the exhaust to flow between them. Maybe the exhausts flow inboard of the inner strake; the 2 strakes produce 2 corotating vortices that flow in the tyre-footplate gap and form a taller structure than the one that would be formed by a single strake

[Hobbs04]

Comparision: Singapore's diffuser VS Silverstone's diffuser (note the blackened area, very massive interaction with hot gasses!)
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BU2Da3PCUAIuLl4.jpg

I concur with shelly's theory regarding taller vortice structure. Note the exhaust residue along rear wing. If they are getting increased performance at that height, would they, could they draw more downforce from beam wing?

Newey has an affection for the beam wing downforce, 2012 DDRS for example. Basically over this era (2009-13 regs) teams are constantly trying to rotate the aero from y250 back around coke bottle onto beam wing... Hence why 2014 we will no longer have beam wing.

[henra]

This picture suggests that maybe the two strakes do not produce 2 counter rotating vortices for the exhaust to flow between them. Maybe the exhausts flow inboard of the inner strake; the 2 strakes produce 2 corotating vortices that flow in the tyre-footplate gap and form a taller structure than the one that would be formed by a single strake

I assume the general flow in front of the tyres in that area will be inward. This will be supported by the outer strake.
My idea is that the inner strake will create an opposing force on floor Level (by converging with the outer strake creating an increased static pressure) forcing the inward flow over it, thereby initiating a vortex over and around the exhaust flow which I also assume to be moving mostly or completely inside the innner strake. This vortex would be clockwise when looking from the rear. Since the footplate vortex will be counter-clockwise and situated lower this exhaust- accelerated vortex could accelerate itself the footplate vortex and help to prevent it from being sucked into the diffuser.

[Spacepace]

Could those black marks possibly be rubber from the tyre?

[e30ernest]

Could those black marks possibly be rubber from the tyre?

Or brake dust coming off the brake ducts?

[shelly]

This picture suggests that maybe the two strakes do not produce 2 counter rotating vortices for the exhaust to flow between them. Maybe the exhausts flow inboard of the inner strake; the 2 strakes produce 2 corotating vortices that flow in the tyre-footplate gap and form a taller structure than the one that would be formed by a single strake

I assume the general flow in front of the tyres in that area will be inward. This will be supported by the outer strake.
My idea is that the inner strake will create an opposing force on floor Level (by converging with the outer strake creating an increased static pressure) forcing the inward flow over it, thereby initiating a vortex over and around the exhaust flow which I also assume to be moving mostly or completely inside the innner strake. This vortex would be clockwise when looking from the rear. Since the footplate vortex will be counter-clockwise and situated lower this exhaust- accelerated vortex could accelerate itself the footplate vortex and help to prevent it from being sucked into the diffuser.

If I have understood correctly what you say, I am of the same opinion. In a normal 1 strake setup the strake makes 1 vortex that flows in the gap between footplate and wheel, rotating in the opposite sense to the footplate vortex, with exhaust flowing between them.
With 2 strakes, the 2 vortices porduced from them rotate in the same direction and form a single vortex structure which is more oval than rounded, i.e. taller in the sense of extending more to the ground starting from the floor plane. This would give a better insulation of the wheel

[andrewf1]

AMuS source saying RB using sophisticated Renault technology to blow off-throttle via gas pedal(don't know details)
Other Renault powered engines teams don't have access to it!

EDIT: no link yet!

And the very next sentence in the article says those other Renault powered teams wouldn't benefit from Red Bull's settings, because their car is built differently. It's all about context, both in F1 and the art of quoting

[turbof1]

It was already noticable Red Bull from Spa that Red Bull somehow is able to extract alot more downforce out of the diffuser.
It might not be the engine mapping per se; remember that the FIA really clamped that avenue down. And any possible advantages with the engine mapping had to be there since the start of the season; they can't change it after the first few races.
We might be looking at different solutions. They might have put alot of work into the helmholtz resonance chamber. Other possible avenues could be that they somehow are able to recreate a big part of the sealing effect from the exhaust, with vortices. We've also seen that while shifting to a different gear momentarily blows the diffuser, so they could have done something there as well which the other teams haven't figured out yet.

In any case, the RB9 will be by all means the fastest car of the current era. It beated the 2011 qualy time, the reference season so to speak, with a whopping 1,5s.

[andrewf1]

AMuS source saying RB using sophisticated Renault technology to blow off-throttle via gas pedal(don't know details)
Other Renault powered engines teams don't have access to it!

EDIT: no link yet!

And the very next sentence in the article says those other Renault powered teams wouldn't benefit from Red Bull's settings, because their car is built differently. It's all about context, both in F1 and the art of quoting

So bassically what we are saying is that Vettel is being praised as better than Alonso,when in fact he has a car whit 4 wheels while Alonso has a car whit 3 wheels!?

I'm not sure i understand your post. I was just pointing out that the bolded part is a bit of a dramatisation.

[Juzh]

It might not be the engine mapping per se; remember that the FIA really clamped that avenue down. And any possible advantages with the engine mapping had to be there since the start of the season; they can't change it after the first few races.

This basically. This map has been in use since the start of 2013.

In any case, the RB9 will be by all means the fastest car of the current era. It beated the 2011 qualy time, the reference season so to speak, with a whopping 1,5s.

Resurfacing on some parts of the track and changed T10 are easily worth 1.5s. That said, 2011 had unlimited drs, but then again, 2013 pirellis are much softer and grippy. 2013 car might be faster overall, but not that much. 2010 fastest lap was in fact 6 tenths quicker than 2013 despite stupid kerbs in T10 and no resurfacing.

[Joie de vivre]

Wait for next year for central exhaust. No more blowing diffusers.

Where was RedBull at the start of the 2012 season, when they didn't have Saubers exhaust? Exactly my point.

[lio007]

Wait for next year for central exhaust. No more blowing diffusers.

Where was RedBull at the start of the 2012 season, when they didn't have Saubers exhaust? Exactly my point.

http://www.cardotcom.com/photos/news01/ ... rb8-02.jpg

just for your information why the start of the 2012 season was a little bit "special" for RBR because
- RBR had found a loophole and developed an "exhaust-gas-chatch-system" http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/form ... 00509.html
- thats why, they had to start from zero at the very beginning 2012 in terms of exhaust-system and thats why they had no coanda-exhaust at jerez