Red Bull RB6

[marcush.]

I think this is correct but still my question remains:

slowing the front wheel down by making contact would in first instance push the car down not up ? with brakes applied of course the tyre would instantly climb the rearwheel...but what happens as long as the brakes are not applied?

[MattyT]

A famous example of a high downforce car launching itself solely because of a loss in aerodynamic efficiency is this Mercedes flipping at Le Mans : Note that it takes off when it reaches the crest of a hill, when the sudden change of incline forces more air underneath the car (creating a high pressure wave under the body) ...

Of all the videos of this mercedes flipping you didn't happen to see the one of MW doing the same, in the same car?

[gridwalker]

I saw them, but didn't want it to seem like I was persecuting MW for his desire to be a pilot ... I mean, I know he's from Oz, but that doesn't mean he has to drive his car upside down to prove it

[kalinka]

Marcush, I was explaining just that in my previous post. It doesn't matter that the front wheel is not braking. Simply the huge amount of angular momentum that a high speed F1 wheel has, has to go somwhere, since you can't destroy it. If you suddenly stop that wheel spinning forward, it doesn't matter that that wheel can roll free on the wheelhub, it can't change it's rolling direction in a split second, so all of that forward rolling resistance would act as if the wheel is firmly attached to the chassis without hub, and that's why the rear wheel of the front car can lift it up. Just imagine a laboratory situation when you have free rotating F1 wheel at let's say 150kph, and you have to stop it first, and then you have to reverse it's rotation, and you must do that without conventional brakes, just by tyre contact. It's a huge amount of energy stored in a rotating wheel. It's not a coincidence that some of KERS systems work on this principe. Even in that lab situation you cannot do that in fraction of a second.

EDIT : And yes, Gridwalker, all other effects that you pointed out,adds to this lifting effect.

[Remote_Access]

I think this is correct but still my question remains:

slowing the front wheel down by making contact would in first instance push the car down not up ? with brakes applied of course the tyre would instantly climb the rearwheel...but what happens as long as the brakes are not applied?

There is no force to push the nose down, so no.

The reason a car dives under braking is because the contact patch is lower (ie, at ground level) than the CoG of the car, creating a torque that pushes the nose down, counteracted by the suspension system (ie springs).

In this case, the contact is on the front face of the tyre, the friction force on the other tyre is directed upwards, and is displaced by well over a metre from the CoG, creating quite a large torque pushing the nose upwards. This is regardless of any braking force as the trailing wheel has angular momentum and cannot simply stop instantaneously.

In terms of the impact force of one tyre bumping the other, as the contact is roughly in line with the CoG height (approximately) if not above it, this does not generate any substantial torque, therefore simply acts to slow the following car as any impact would.

[marcush.]

ok now its clear ..I managed to get rid of my shades..

[strad]

God you guys love to make things more complex than they are. Break out your 8th grade physics book.

[raymondu999]

Hey guys. Just been watching the Spanish (Barcelona) Grand Prix again, and I noticed something interesting:

Mark Webber's steering wheel:


Sebastian Vettel's steering wheel:


The tops are completely different. Anyone know why?

Looking at Mark's wheel, he has a Toro Rosso-ish design, similar to the wheel used by Buemi and Alguersuari.

[PlatinumZealot]

God you guys love to make things more complex than they are. Break out your 8th grade physics book.

You can say that again.. boy oh boy over-complication is right edit wrong smiley..

1. The car just ramped off the spinning back wheel of the lotus

2. We can see the RedBull front wing lifting up just before the crash in the video because of driving right behind the lotus, low pressure turbulent air so less down-force on the front wing. The front wing could have even stalled (we don't know)

3. Because the body starts to pitch back because of the ramping up on the lotus back wheel and the low DF on the front wing the car basically behaved like a kite. That is the floor became angled upwards in such a way to create lift. The car then took off like a kite.

[wesley123]

This is a joke

I am believing that the things you are saying is a joke...

[forty-two]

Hey guys. Just been watching the Spanish (Barcelona) Grand Prix again, and I noticed something interesting:

Mark Webber's steering wheel:


Sebastian Vettel's steering wheel:


The tops are completely different. Anyone know why?

Looking at Mark's wheel, he has a Toro Rosso-ish design, similar to the wheel used by Buemi and Alguersuari.

Hmmm, that IS interesting. Perhaps the widget installed atop Webber's wheel is something which he can afford to have there as he is a little bit taller than Vettel, and can therefore see the display over it, while Vettel couldn't?

The button layout looks to be the same on both.

[PNSD]

Drivers have a preference for wheels, just like with anything really.

Im sure others have heard the storey that DC bought a wheel from Mclaren and gave it to RBR and said this is how I want it/should be done.

Another example is Jenson this year. He said in testing it feels strange having to look down at the wheel to make sure what you are pressing is right because he's done it without looking for 7 years or so.

I suppose this is no different. Maybe Webber prefers the feel.

[strad]

I am believing that the things you are saying is a joke...

You can believe whatever you like, but if you guys can have such a hard time figuring out why two wheels touchin launches the following car... [-X

[Shrek]

One interesting observation is that Red Bull has a setting on the engine, whereby the ignition is retarded on the over run, which maintains exhaust gas pressure even when the driver lifts off the throttle. This maintains the performance of the blown diffuser and keeps the downforce up when it’s most needed. It’s not something you can do for more than a lap or two as it damages the engine, but it gives that vital fraction of a second which keeps Red Bull ahead of the rest in qualifying.

I found this on Scarbs twitter page, but can someone please tell me how it's done?
http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2010/07/e ... decisions/

[Boost]

One interesting observation is that Red Bull has a setting on the engine, whereby the ignition is retarded on the over run, which maintains exhaust gas pressure even when the driver lifts off the throttle. This maintains the performance of the blown diffuser and keeps the downforce up when it’s most needed. It’s not something you can do for more than a lap or two as it damages the engine, but it gives that vital fraction of a second which keeps Red Bull ahead of the rest in qualifying.

I found this on Scarbs twitter page, but can someone please tell me how it's done?
http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2010/07/e ... decisions/

The fuel injection and ignition is deliberately timed so that it occurs when the exhaust valve is open, so the flame front goes out the combustion chamber and down the exhaust system.

You also need to delay the throttle closing so that sufficient air is drawn into the engine on the overrun to allow the combustion to occur.

The cars are allowed 5 switchable maps, generally a starting one for the first lap and then the others reduce the torque output for different gears (McLaren used extra paddles on the steering wheel so the maps could be changed at the same time as the gearchange). RBR could be using one purely for the qually laps, and then just 4 for the race itself.