Red Bull RB9 Renault

A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter do not belong here.
JDC123
JDC123
30
Joined: 20 Jun 2013, 21:02

Re: Red Bull RB9 Renault

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lio007 wrote:
Joie de vivre wrote:Wait for next year for central exhaust. No more blowing diffusers.

Where was RedBull at the start of the 2012 season, when they didn't have Saubers exhaust? Exactly my point.

http://www.cardotcom.com/photos/news01/ ... rb8-02.jpg
just for your information why the start of the 2012 season was a little bit "special" for RBR because
- RBR had found a loophole and developed an "exhaust-gas-chatch-system" http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/form ... 00509.html
- thats why, they had to start from zero at the very beginning 2012 in terms of exhaust-system and thats why they had no coanda-exhaust at jerez
I'm pretty sure the exhaust red bull had at pre season testing didn't work anywhere near as good as others with coanda solutions, and that is why they didn't carry it into the season.

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Juzh
161
Joined: 06 Oct 2012, 08:45

Re: Red Bull RB9 Renault

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JDC123 wrote:
lio007 wrote:
Joie de vivre wrote:Wait for next year for central exhaust. No more blowing diffusers.

Where was RedBull at the start of the 2012 season, when they didn't have Saubers exhaust? Exactly my point.

http://www.cardotcom.com/photos/news01/ ... rb8-02.jpg
just for your information why the start of the 2012 season was a little bit "special" for RBR because
- RBR had found a loophole and developed an "exhaust-gas-chatch-system" http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/form ... 00509.html
- thats why, they had to start from zero at the very beginning 2012 in terms of exhaust-system and thats why they had no coanda-exhaust at jerez
I'm pretty sure the exhaust red bull had at pre season testing didn't work anywhere near as good as others with coanda solutions, and that is why they didn't carry it into the season.
They didn't have their trick exhaust at pre-season testing. They developed it and then mercedes I think warned the FIA of the loophole just before the pre-season testing started. FIA then amended the rules to close that loophole. Red bull then went into pre-season with no coanda or trick exhaust whatsoever.

Huntresa
Huntresa
54
Joined: 03 Dec 2011, 11:33

Re: Red Bull RB9 Renault

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Juzh wrote:
myurr wrote: It would also be nice if the blown diffuser were removed, taking away a benefit for one specific driving style and returning to their being multiple approaches with differing strengths and weaknesses (tyre durability would help this as well). Oooo we're hopefully at least getting this one, although god knows what ingenious solution some team or another will come up with to still use exhaust gasses in a beneficial way!
Drop your antics and just admit the only reason you want EBD banned is because vettel and red bull are stomping your whoever it is favourite driver. Based on how EBD works it will inevitably hurt one's driving style and encourage another one's. You're hoping it will hurt RB more than others and that's it.
More like we dont want the same person winning all the time, even if you like him it becomes boring.

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Kiril Varbanov
147
Joined: 05 Feb 2012, 15:00
Location: Bulgaria, Sofia

Re: Red Bull RB9 Renault

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La Stampa runs a piece on the excellent diffuser downforce - http://www.lastampa.it/2013/09/24/blogs ... agina.html

Richard
Richard
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Joined: 15 Apr 2009, 14:41
Location: UK

Re: Red Bull RB9 Renault

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Please focus on the car - I've deleted 2 pages of ying yang about the telekinetic powers of Vettel's right foot, Webber's unforgivable inability to walk on water , and Newey's reversal of magnitic polarity.

Jonnycraig
Jonnycraig
6
Joined: 12 Apr 2013, 20:48

Re: Red Bull RB9 Renault

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Joie de vivre wrote:Where was RedBull at the start of the 2012 season, when they didn't have Saubers exhaust? Exactly my point.
Eh? Bar an alternator failure in Valencia, Vettel would've been leading the WDC at the half way stage.

Hobbs04
Hobbs04
5
Joined: 07 Jun 2012, 19:18

Re: Red Bull RB9 Renault

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Considering both red bulls are suffering gearbox issues, specifically dog rings, could the rb9 be slipping the gears to ease their tire wear? Combine that with engine maps that allow early blowing of the diffuser could this be the reason rb9 puts the power down early in the turns without breaking traction. I don't know if allowing the gearbox to slip more would constitute traction control but if Vettel incorporates a specific driving style; short shifting, or staying in higher gear at partial throttle it seems possible....

Just worked 16 hrs straight and couldn't get it off my mind.

dxpetrov
dxpetrov
-7
Joined: 24 May 2012, 15:39

Re: Red Bull RB9 Renault

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Yeah, definitely the tires are the biggest factor and the new construction doesn't limit them anymore like at the beginning of year.

tpe
tpe
-4
Joined: 03 Feb 2006, 00:24
Location: Greece

Re: Red Bull RB9 Renault

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Does anyone have more information about the "coating" that is behind the exhausts, at the floor of RB9? Could it be that the little secret of RB9?

Richard
Richard
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Joined: 15 Apr 2009, 14:41
Location: UK

Re: Red Bull RB9 Renault

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If the post is not about something on the car then its not in this thread.

Fanboy posts have been deleted.

Traction Control ying yang has its own thread :arrow: http://www.f1technical.net/forum/viewto ... =1&t=15474


Huntresa
Huntresa
54
Joined: 03 Dec 2011, 11:33

Re: Red Bull RB9 Renault

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Multiplex
Multiplex
-1
Joined: 08 Nov 2012, 12:25

Re: Red Bull RB9 Renault

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Good thing that Gian Carlo Minardi openly have questions about the RB.
I hope this is a wakeup call for FIA to do some serious scrutineering and this time with a reaction depending on the results of the scrutineering.
In my opinion F1 is a fake if RB can continue with this blatant cheating (rule bending is not a good description for this practices anymore)

js89
js89
0
Joined: 29 Sep 2013, 17:04

Re: Red Bull RB9 Renault

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Druk Lager wrote:AMuS source saying RB using sophisticated Renault technology to blow off-throttle via gas pedal(don't know details)
Other Renault powered engines teams don't have access to it!

EDIT: no link yet!
Are teams/engine manufacturers allowed to control the ignition in the cylinder or is it part of the standard ECU/approved mappings?

If they are allowed to control it, could RB be using the throttle position to control the amount of air passing through the cylinders, and also sequencing the ignition in order to limit the power being developed. This could be triggered/primed by coming completely off-throttle as you do just before a corner. The driver would then control the throttle during the corner but know that more and more cylinders would also fire as they progressed through the corner. For the duration of the corner, air is flowing through the engine into the diffuser.

Someone will now say that this is banned by the regulations, but I thought it was just off-throttle blowing that was banned.

Huntresa
Huntresa
54
Joined: 03 Dec 2011, 11:33

Re: Red Bull RB9 Renault

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js89 wrote:
Druk Lager wrote:AMuS source saying RB using sophisticated Renault technology to blow off-throttle via gas pedal(don't know details)
Other Renault powered engines teams don't have access to it!

EDIT: no link yet!
Are teams/engine manufacturers allowed to control the ignition in the cylinder or is it part of the standard ECU/approved mappings?

If they are allowed to control it, could RB be using the throttle position to control the amount of air passing through the cylinders, and also sequencing the ignition in order to limit the power being developed. This could be triggered/primed by coming completely off-throttle as you do just before a corner. The driver would then control the throttle during the corner but know that more and more cylinders would also fire as they progressed through the corner. For the duration of the corner, air is flowing through the engine into the diffuser.

Someone will now say that this is banned by the regulations, but I thought it was just off-throttle blowing that was banned.
Doesnt FIA think throttle via foot gases etc is driver influence eventho they allow the current exhaust versions?

H2H
H2H
4
Joined: 24 Apr 2013, 21:24

Re: Red Bull RB9 Renault

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Looking back at Singapore and Monza it is surprising to find some uniting themes. This is from the performance report of Luigi Mazzola, writtern before the Gran Premio d'Italia.
L’Autodromo di Monza è un circuito attraente per la sua storia e per le sue caratteristiche tecniche, uno dei più difficili per far andar forte una monoposto di Formula 1. Poche curve, ma tutte maledettamente difficili per trovare un set-up bilanciato, visto il poco carico aerodinamico a disposizione. I quattro rettilinei molto lunghi forzano gli ingegneri a scaricare la vettura per avere poco drag (4-5 km/h in più di velocità massima, arrivano a fare anche più di 1 secondo al giro) con la conseguenza che si rende molto difficile la frenata, il bilancio in curva e la trazione. Dovessi consigliare un assetto, prediligerei una vettura molto sbilanciata aerodinamicamente sul posteriore, dunque con poco carico all’avantreno, per cercare la stabilità in frenata e la trazione, pagando il prezzo d’avere generalmente sottosterzo, che si potrebbe limitare con un assetto meccanico sempre concentrato al posteriore, dunque con una vettura più rigida a rollio al retrotreno, rispetto all’anteriore.
We all know that in Monza the aerodynamic efficiency plays a huge role while in Singapore it is far more about the quantity of the downforce, leaving the mechanical a bit aside. Getting likely the strongest performance return from the EBD coupled with the overall great aero job certainly helps RBR to go for such a skinny rear wing as we saw in Monza to shed important drag. The car certainly 'looked' even more aero-biased towards the front compared to other circuits and to the general Monza approach as described by Mazzola.

Overall it is difficult to find any considerable weakness relative to the other cars when piloted by the WDC leader, bar reliability and the starts, at least compared to Ferraris.