2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

[Xyz22]

I wonder why FIA does not check how they manage to have these speeds ... In 2019 they focused on Ferrari's engine which didn't have such an advantage.

RB looks so strong because Ferrari pretty much didn't improve from last year (or had a minimal improvement compared to the competition).

[Xwang]

I wonder why FIA does not check how they manage to have these speeds ... In 2019 they focused on Ferrari's engine which didn't have such an advantage.

RB looks so strong because Ferrari pretty much didn't improve from last year (or had a minimal improvement compared to the competition).

I was referring to the huge speed advantage versus mercedes of the previous post

[Shal_Leg16]

I don't see any scenario where Leclerc will stay with Ferrari unless they produce a rocket ship for 2024, which doesn't seem very likely.

He will, if if there are no openings. RB and Aston are full, and besides only Red Bull would be a definite step forward. Mercedes keeps bumbling with car design and no openings, Aston jumped to around second, but it's questionable whether they can get closer or maintain their position, and it's a one driver team and they have Alonso for multiple years.
Otherwise he best hope RB is willing to put a driver of his caliber beside Verstappen. And best hope he has an exit clause that will apply for next year.

Mercedes basically got the concept wrong but least with them i see them knowing what is wrong. Its just that due to cost cap thing they are finding it difficult to throw away all the investment in current concept. But hypothetically if they roll the dice i feel they will quickly catch-up…unlike Ferrari who seems to be one of the only few that looks clueless and has gone backwards.

I feel Charles actually really wants to win it with Ferrari but practically he has better chance with Mercs if lewis retires.

[AR3-GP]

I don't see any scenario where Leclerc will stay with Ferrari unless they produce a rocket ship for 2024, which doesn't seem very likely.

He will, if if there are no openings. RB and Aston are full, and besides only Red Bull would be a definite step forward. Mercedes keeps bumbling with car design and no openings, Aston jumped to around second, but it's questionable whether they can get closer or maintain their position, and it's a one driver team and they have Alonso for multiple years.
Otherwise he best hope RB is willing to put a driver of his caliber beside Verstappen. And best hope he has an exit clause that will apply for next year.

Mercedes basically got the concept wrong but least with them i see them knowing what is wrong. Its just that due to cost cap thing they are finding it difficult to throw away all the investment in current concept. But hypothetically if they roll the dice i feel they will quickly catch-up…unlike Ferrari who seems to be one of the only few that looks clueless and has gone backwards.

I feel Charles actually really wants to win it with Ferrari but practically he has better chance with Mercs if lewis retires.

I don't know why you think it's so bad.

This weekend was better than Jedda/Bah car wise.

Sainz threw away something like 3 tenths in a single corner on his qualy lap. Leclerc got blocked by Sainz on his lap. So basically the usual nonsense that doesn't allow them to exploit what they have. Then Leclerc crashed in the race. The drivers and team are poorly executing on what they have. Sainz's pace in Albert Park was fine and he is the slower Ferrari driver.

If this team had been as slick as RB/Merc operationally and driving wise, Ferrari would have qualified on the first two rows with the car they have. There was every opportunity for Ferrari to have done what Mercedes did this weekend but they couldn't because of sloppy performances by the humans, not the car.

[avantman]

Fair assessment. They are not maximizing what they have atm.

[Vinlarr89]

Just think the situation whereby Sainz found himself back in 11th didn’t help as he had to push harder to get back up the field didn’t help. If he could have got onto DRS on the back of alonso it could have been different. Leclerc is normally extracting more out the car, you’d like to think he could have got podium

[Sevach]

Just think the situation whereby Sainz found himself back in 11th didn’t help as he had to push harder to get back up the field didn’t help. If he could have got onto DRS on the back of alonso it could have been different. Leclerc is normally extracting more out the car, you’d like to think he could have got podium

On most weekends Charles can extract more from the car, but not all of them, this was looking like a Sainz weekend, he was fast and racy this weekend.

I'm gonna be the glass half empty guy sorry, Ferrari had a bunch of fixes since Bahrain, they got their RW working, a fixed FW and now a lightly tweaked floor+ stay.
And all they have to show with it is "maybe if things fell better for us we could've edged a podium", the car after all the fixes is in the same class as the Aston/Mercedes... meanwhile someone named Verstappen sleeps his way to winning, it's not good.

PS: Why this thread doesn't appear in the "most active forum topics" on the sites front page? Other team threads do... Does anybody else have this problem? It's annoying.

[jambuka]

I feel the car performed better than expected. Had Sainz not put on hards immediately and waited for red flag, he could have even challenged Lewis. Having said that, if the new floor stay has actually improved the operating window, if they can’t show big improvements in the next two races, then the season is most likely over. RB is not invincible, neither is Max.

[Andres125sx]

its just insane to penalize sainz for crashing into fernando which was not even part of race as they neutralize that part of racing which fIA has re-order the racing position as prior to last lap of all car and had alpine has not crash they would have been instate if fia has not consider that part as racing then how they has penalised the carlos and that also under a safety car which not only took away fourth position from carlos even took him out of point best case scenario would have been in next race 2 position or 3 position grid penalty would be better bcoz under safety car with just last lap he was sitting duck and if i remember same kind of incident if not the same situation with lance and fernando his(future team mate) clashed and for that if i am not wrong lance was given grip penalty in next race.

The only thing that should draw confusion is the fact that Sargeant and Gasly escaped penalty. Saint’s penalty was correct; he hit Fernando at the first corner. That’s not really debatable.

As for whether the lap “didn’t count” as part of the race, it absolutely did; it was lap 57. Lap 56 was the “formation lap” before the restart, lap 57 was the restart and red flag, lap 58 was the “formation lap” to the finish.

As for re-ordering the field, this is the same procedure that let Sainz stay in front in Silverstone 2022 after the Zhou crash. Precedent set, precedent followed. I don’t see what the confusion is beyond the lack of penalties for other drivers.

Seriously?

What about the fact that first race incidents are usually considered racing incidents, while this time they punished Sainz extremelly hard demoting him from 4th to 12th for a small and pretty common mistake on first lap?

One position lost, or two-three positions on next grid would have been a lot more sensible, even if still unfair (I can mention dozens of accidents in first lap wich didn´t draw any penalty), but demoting 8 position and removing 12 points is probably the biggest penalty we´ve seen in F1 in decades... for a small and common mistake

Infuriating double standards

[basti313]

its just insane to penalize sainz for crashing into fernando which was not even part of race as they neutralize that part of racing which fIA has re-order the racing position as prior to last lap of all car and had alpine has not crash they would have been instate if fia has not consider that part as racing then how they has penalised the carlos and that also under a safety car which not only took away fourth position from carlos even took him out of point best case scenario would have been in next race 2 position or 3 position grid penalty would be better bcoz under safety car with just last lap he was sitting duck and if i remember same kind of incident if not the same situation with lance and fernando his(future team mate) clashed and for that if i am not wrong lance was given grip penalty in next race.

The only thing that should draw confusion is the fact that Sargeant and Gasly escaped penalty. Saint’s penalty was correct; he hit Fernando at the first corner. That’s not really debatable.

As for whether the lap “didn’t count” as part of the race, it absolutely did; it was lap 57. Lap 56 was the “formation lap” before the restart, lap 57 was the restart and red flag, lap 58 was the “formation lap” to the finish.

As for re-ordering the field, this is the same procedure that let Sainz stay in front in Silverstone 2022 after the Zhou crash. Precedent set, precedent followed. I don’t see what the confusion is beyond the lack of penalties for other drivers.

Seriously?

What about the fact that first race incidents are usually considered racing incidents, while this time they punished Sainz extremelly hard demoting him from 4th to 12th for a small and pretty common mistake on first lap?

One position lost, or two-three positions on next grid would have been a lot more sensible, even if still unfair (I can mention dozens of accidents in first lap wich didn´t draw any penalty), but demoting 8 position and removing 12 points is probably the biggest penalty we´ve seen in F1 in decades... for a small and common mistake

Infuriating double standards

I can see the double standards. But I can not see the words "harsh, extremely hard, or unfair". Hitting your opponent in any racing series other than F1 like this is always a drive through. I do not know why F1 has a 5sec penalty for rotating your opponent at all and I do not know why they sometimes have trouble giving a penalty at all or for the car in front.
But...in any case for just running too hot into the corner and hitting another car on the back wheel a 5sec penalty is really soft. And Sainz was simply lucky to be on the inside, if he runs like this on the outside then he does a Stroll and goes into the gravel. I do not get the discussion here...he made an error, stand to it.

[Xyz22]

I feel the car performed better than expected. Had Sainz not put on hards immediately and waited for red flag, he could have even challenged Lewis. Having said that, if the new floor stay has actually improved the operating window, if they can’t show big improvements in the next two races, then the season is most likely over. RB is not invincible, neither is Max.

The season is absolutely over in terms of WDC. Max is winning without pushing even remotely close to the limits of the car.

[Andres125sx]

I can see the double standards. But I can not see the words "harsh, extremely hard, or unfair". Hitting your opponent in any racing series other than F1 like this is always a drive through. I do not know why F1 has a 5sec penalty for rotating your opponent at all and I do not know why they sometimes have trouble giving a penalty at all or for the car in front.
But...in any case for just running too hot into the corner and hitting another car on the back wheel a 5sec penalty is really soft. And Sainz was simply lucky to be on the inside, if he runs like this on the outside then he does a Stroll and goes into the gravel. I do not get the discussion here...he made an error, stand to it.

Gasly didn't receive any penalty for example, despite crushing a rival (his teammate) against a wall

Apart from that, penalties should be proportional to the infringement or mistake. The mistake had no consequences (unlike gasly mistake) as Alonso kept the podium, but he received a penalty which equals disqualifying, which is a HUGE punishment we have not seen in decades

You can't say 5 seconds is standard, under SC applying 5 seconds equals to DSQ...

You really think that is a fair punishment for a mistake with no consequences for any driver?

Can anyone point me to any penalty which deprived any driver from scoring 12 points? I've seen much more severe mistakes, and not even those received such a severe punishment

[Dr. Acula]

Can anyone point me to any penalty which deprived any driver from scoring 12 points? I've seen much more severe mistakes, and not even those received such a severe punishment

Well, not 12 points, but the penalty for Schumacher at Monaco 2010 was a similar joke. He got penalized because the stewards didn't execute the rules correctly and switched the track to green at the very end and Schumacher overtook Alonso. So he got a penalty because the race control made a mistake.

[selvam_e2002]

Time has come for Ferrari to conclude that it needs a world champion to lead the team on track and off track. Getting academy driver and managers with experience at Sauber is just wrong.

100%. I felt this several times. They need experienced driver. have two kids is not going to help the team. They are paying for their decision. Kick out Sainz and bring experienced one next year.

Example team: RB with Perez, MB with Ham AM with Alonso.

Ferrari, Alpine are in same boat.

[basti313]

I can see the double standards. But I can not see the words "harsh, extremely hard, or unfair". Hitting your opponent in any racing series other than F1 like this is always a drive through. I do not know why F1 has a 5sec penalty for rotating your opponent at all and I do not know why they sometimes have trouble giving a penalty at all or for the car in front.
But...in any case for just running too hot into the corner and hitting another car on the back wheel a 5sec penalty is really soft. And Sainz was simply lucky to be on the inside, if he runs like this on the outside then he does a Stroll and goes into the gravel. I do not get the discussion here...he made an error, stand to it.

Gasly didn't receive any penalty for example, despite crushing a rival (his teammate) against a wall

As I said, I see the double standards, no need to discuss them.
I see not a single reason why Gasly was not penalized. Very hard for me to discuss this being too obvious...

Apart from that, penalties should be proportional to the infringement or mistake.

Which opens up just more double standards? If last place rotates the car in front he gets a different penalty as if P2 rotates the car in front? I do not like this.

You can't say 5 seconds is standard, under SC applying 5 seconds equals to DSQ...

Well...point 1 for me is, that 5sec is a wrong standard. If you rotate the car in front of you, you have to wave a nice hello to your pit crew in my point of view. So this nearly always puts you out of the points.
Point 2 is again double standards. A penalty is a penalty, no matter what the proportionality is. We have also seen 10sec penalties just disappearing. Or just last race a 5sec without any meaning in the end.
As long as the penalty system is like this, the result does not matter by the rule. Here it simply did not matter by the rule where Sainz ends up. This is not unfair, this is the stupid rule...if someone does not like it...vote for changing the rule, not say the one applying it is wrong. Again...double standards...we want to avoid them.

You really think that is a fair punishment for a mistake with no consequences for any driver?

No. I think the only fair penalty for rotating the car in front by hitting the rear wheel is a drive through, nothing else.