Red Bull RB8 Renault

[Adrian Newby]

@AN

I already know what you have been saying.


But simply put; you cannot have the downforce of your front axle varying with V^2 and the downforce of your rear axle varying with V^1.8!!! (just for instance - and it wouldn't even be close to being that straightforward)


Try and balance that!


I'm not underestimating anyone, but at the same time, I'm not going to blindly ignore the complexities of what is suggested and simply say "'cos they're dead bright, they'll have no problem with it".

I'll wager they are brighter than both of us, and would have less of a problem with it than we would.

Remember, this is not removing all the downforce from the diffuser, only the amount increased by whatever amount of sealing they are able to claw back. Also, it would only occur on longer straights.

You are making mountains out of mole hills. To the extent they can use it, they will. To the extent that it is detrimental, they won't. There is a compromise there. It is their job to find it. They would have already done much of this research anyway since the exhaust is naturally going to get blown farther back at higher speeds. That being the case, wouldn't it be a grand idea for them to actually make it go where/when they want it to go instead of accepting it as is? If you want more information on how they do that or exactly where that line is you will have to talk to them.

I am off. I will have to reply to any more of this later...

[Adrian Newby]

The effect would be much like an F-duct that only worked over a certain speed. And F-ducts seemed to work pretty well.

It's nothing like an f-duct. You had a constant targeted flow with an f-duct that was digitally controlled by the driver, no matter the velocity of the car.

An exhaust blown rear wing depends on velocity, throttle input, cross winds, yaw rate, etc etc. If the driver had to lift off the throttle in a fast corner, he'd be stuffed.

If an f-duct type effect was possible with the diffuser I'm sure it would have happened before this year, when there was more flexibility with the exhaust positioning, rather than now when they are placed so far away.

The effect would be much like an F-duct that only worked over a certain speed.

ugh.

later.

[horse]

The effect would be much like an F-duct that only worked over a certain speed.

ugh.

later.

If you want it aimed at the wake of the rear wing at high speeds then it will need to be aimed at the wing itself at lower speeds or possibly in front of it at even lower speeds. So it's going to have some kind of off-on-off effect on the rear wing downforce at increasing velocities assuming full throttle. Given this, there will be a speed, below the "stall" speed, where the wing is being directly effected by the exhaust which will therefore make the downforce throttle dependant. I'd surmise that this will lead to poor stability.

[Forza]

Rear shot of new/central support RW & diffuser. Right click>view image

I was reading the article in the Mercedes w03 where Marko said that Mercedes is using the passive F-duct on the Rear wing. I don't know how accurate this information is at the moment and I don't credit Marko as reliable source. This picture above could be RB testing central pillar support which could include this system later when they redesign it. I'm not assuming that the f-duct is on this particular pillar but this could be only testing drs activator itself and later they will include the channel into this pillar. It would be logical explanation why they were testing this kind of pillar if they have more efficient version of it.

Formula 1 - Marko locates DRS-F-channel at Mercedes The article is in german.

[tjaeger]

...

I guess if he is very quite, and everyone around him is very quite, than Helmut Marko can hear the grass grow. Funny that he does not talk about any technical things RB got going, which he should know, but has spotted these mystery devices on other cars, which nobody else can see, knows or any other evidence exists.
Frankly, I think Helmut missed the point that Merc has build is a Warp drive.

[joeyg02]

I'm a frequent visitor to this Forum, yet I rarely comment. I saw this article today and figured I would post it in case any of you are interested.

http://motorsport.nextgen-auto.com/Red- ... 37723.html

Quote from article:
"Another rival engineer said there is visual evidence that the exhaust gases on the revised layout "are not going where they (Red Bull) want them to go"

[red300zx99]

I'm a frequent visitor to this Forum, yet I rarely comment. I saw this article today and figured I would post it in case any of you are interested.

http://motorsport.nextgen-auto.com/Red- ... 37723.html

Quote from article:
"Another rival engineer said there is visual evidence that the exhaust gases on the revised layout "are not going where they (Red Bull) want them to go"

Sounds similar to the issues Ferrari were having

[Raptor22]

"stalling diffusers".....?
I see the Star Wars script writers are back

[raymondu999]

Apparently Red Bull is still bringing their B-spec car to Melbourne and not the A-spec

[gandharva]

On Servus TV (TV company owned by Red Bull Media House GmbH) Marko talked about Jerez/Barcelona testing. At first he said that it was a shitty sunday. He then talked about the new exhaust system. Regarding to him it's working as intended and the data collected by Mark on saturday looks good and the system is working. He also said that the new system is routing exhaust gases to the diffusor and that there's much more going on than people can see at the first glance. The car seen on last saturday/sunday is a 90% finished version and they will bring even more upgrades to Melbourne.

As he was asked about their closest competitors he said: McLaren and Mercedes and then startet to explain about Mercedes having "the innovation", a DRS triggered f-duct. If it fits into the RBR design line, they will copy it. But this needs testing and they won't have it ready until Melbourne because of lack of time until first race.

At the end he was asked about Ferrari. He responded that Ferrari won't be able to go for podium for quite a while as the car seems to slippery, unstable and hard to drive.

For those understanding german, here you go: http://www.servustv.com/cs/Satellite/VO ... 9088496182#

[cliffgamerz]

http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2012/03/h ... melbourne/

After all they will race B-spec

[shelly]

"stalling diffusers".....?
I see the Star Wars script writers are back

@raptor22: it seems you are fixed with scifi.

I remember you wrote this post I bothered to retrieve:

Diffusor kink lines?!! Who makes these things up? Diffusors have to be joined to the floor somehow and typically its at a dfined edge where floor and diffusor meet. the larger the radius the less the opportunity for shock waves to develop, the less the chance of diffusor choking the less senistive the car is to underbody airflow changes.

Its just a diffusor, its not a trilithim warp generator. there no science fiction involved.

where you harshly dismissed a concept (diffuser kink-line) citing scifi, only to see it been proven as correct by pictures of the underbody of different cars.

Haven't you learned anything from that?

[kilcoo316]

You are making mountains out of mole hills.

I'm really not.


I think you are seriously underestimating the complexities of what you are proposing!


Lets take say... the run through Becketts at silverstone. Through Becketts, the yaw rate can be in excess of 50 deg/second! With the car essentially rotating around the rear-axle centrepoint; that plays havoc on the flow coming from the front of the car around the sidepods and over the diffuser deck... which in turn would destroy any careful calculations with exhaust plumes - either the inside or outside plume will be "straightened" (the same effect as higher speed) with the resulting loss of diffuser downforce. Through Becketts. Bad idea.

That doesn't even begin to include the sensitivity of the diffuser to throttle.

[lombers]

http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2012/03/h ... melbourne/

After all they will race B-spec

Interesting considering the limited running they had with it. Are they gambling a bit on this design?

[munudeges]

http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2012/03/h ... melbourne/

After all they will race B-spec

No big surprise. Even if it isn't working perfectly that's the development direction they need to go in.