Red Bull RB7 Renault

[Giblet]

It has failed for Vettel as well. Neither of them can count on it %100 obviously.

[Pierce89]

If the KERS system when charging causes enough drive train drag that the brake bias has to be changed, I would sum up that the generators used are quite powerful to drag an engine enough to have to make that change. When you think of the power of the brakes in F1, the KERS unit causes a change enough that they have to have a bias change, to balance the braking. That's one powerful generator.
With an adjustable, driver controlled diff, meaning the power output (lock and unlock) per the diff ramps for each axle can be driver/team selected. And the spread percentage side to side is completely open.

You put the brake drag of the KERS and the adjustability (whatever we want the power shift to be) of the diff together, isn't it possible to cause a brake drag to outside wheel, by manualy turning on and off the KERS generator, and cause a "brake" drag to the outside powered wheel, only in this case under acceleration. Just like Newey did with the third brake pedal? A data log system could handle this operation at 1000's of a sec, and kill wheel spin..

In other words using KERS for traction control via the diff ramps/KERS and the teams selection of the ramp differences and having the charging system on/off in rapid concession during full acceleration. I would think this would be difficult to discover by tech and a perfect type of traction control, And as Newey would describe as more "problems with our blasted KERS system that we can never get to work", but as the time sheets show they don't need 80 more horse......
Really?...
And to add to this Magna Marelli is owned by Ferrari....more food for thought? Add traction control to an off handling car and you make it much better, same for a car that already handles well, just that much better... only in this case no retarded timing sounds or spark stoppage, just drag on the motor.. IMHO

the Mclaren third pedal WAS NOT TRACTION CONTROL. It's what's known as a fiddle brake. Applied to the inside rear tire to help the car turn. All tractors have it for the very same reason: to help them turn tighter.

[PlatinumZealot]

It has failed for Vettel as well. Neither of them can count on it %100 obviously.

I think this KERS problem is just too random to be cooling as what some posters were guessing. It just didn't work at all for Webber on Saturday.

Vettel ran it in Q3 so he was lucky. that is if you want to call it luck, or should we say "preferred."

[munudeges]

Webber's KERS screwed up again. What is really going on?

Nothing. Red Bull are simply asking more of their KERS system than any other team. Everyone else has compromised their car in some way with cooling ducts and the amount of space used but Red Bull haven't and won't. That's the way Newey in particular tends to work - he makes his team work within a set of restrictions and tells them to get on with it and they always seem to come through.

With some further development and hard work Red Bull could well end up with a smaller, cooler and more useful KERS than any other team on the grid that might actually be useful to someone outside of Formula 1.

[PlatinumZealot]

Why do you think it is the cooling ducts? Even when Webber's car was just turned on, the system was shot like a dead dog.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/92273

This is not a cooling problem iin my book, and believe me I have fixed many a cooling problem:

It is just tough for the guys, they are doing everything they can, but we cannot continue [to have problems like this].

"I think we were pretty confident of getting it fixed for qualifying on the back on FP3 for me. But I drove down the pitlane and they said no KERS – I thought, 'how the hell do you know that already if I haven't even touched anything?' We tried to get it back into life for Q3 but it wasn't having any of it."

[marcush.]

with the information floating around ,I´m absolutely with you nsmikle.It is nothing with ambient temps and as it is unpredicatble to them it seems they have severe quality issues with more than one component.
If it were a battery ..you´d change it and be in the game again.If it were a GCU you change it and you are back in business.With wiring it might be causing issues like we see .When you got bad ground or chaving,terminals disintegrating under vibration loads this is the sort of trouble that is hard to solve and not quick to repair in the field...
the installation seems to be very vulnerable and some components hard to change as well.

[piast9]

And that's why I am astonished that RBR didn't sorted it out yet. It happened many times this season, they should know what's broken and simplest way of improving is to replace or redesign that thing that broke with better, stronger one. Looks simple but they struggle with it for so long time... Maybe again they thought of something clever but this time it didn't worked too well.

[hardingfv32]

1) I vote for a simple battery overheating issue. Yes, they are hesitant to add cooling, but RB is still leading both championships, so the compromise they have chosen is correct so far.

Maybe Vettel is easier on his KERS than Webber. How is this different from one driver using his tires better than they other?

2) Why mount the batteries in such a hot location if you want to minimize their cooling requirement?

Brian

[speedsense]

the Mclaren third pedal WAS NOT TRACTION CONTROL. It's what's known as a fiddle brake. Applied to the inside rear tire to help the car turn. All tractors have it for the very same reason: to help them turn tighter.

The "banning" of the system was not based in traction control, that is true. The ban ruling was on the subject of brake pressure regulation between Left and Right wheels and brought the Proportioning Valve in question and outlawed from there.
The car came under suspect when pictures of a glowing OUTSIDE brake disc on acceleration where taken and posted in a few of the racing mag's. I believe it was Germany, and at this event the Mclaren unlike the other cars was exiting corners with little to none of the wheel spin observed on other cars (with the outside rear disc glowing ). It wasn't until later that the "famous" photo of the third brake pedal that lead to the ban.
There were also photos (Autoweek I believe) of a glowing disc (inside wheel) on entry/apex as well. One series of photos showed a glowing inside at the apex and then a glowing outside disc (at exit) in the same corner.
The system wasn't being used strictly on the inside wheel, but both sides of the car in the same corner, dragging the brake to decrease wheelspin, and is in any sense, traction control.

During the season, F1 Racing photographer Darren Heath noticed that the rear brakes of the McLarens were glowing red in an acceleration zone of the track. The magazine discovered through photos of the inside of the cockpit, that McLaren had installed a second brake pedal, selectable by the driver to act on one of the rear wheels. This allowed the driver to eliminate understeer and reduce wheelspin when exiting slow corners, dubbed "brake steer"

[kyniu]

Did anyone noticed the hot air flow from the big O duct on Vettels car? The car was on the very standstill – on the grid after the race was stopped.

[dren]

The KERS issues most likely come from the demanding packaging requirements Newey put on it. Not sure if it's cooling or wiring or what, but most likely the cause is the packaging.

[hardingfv32]

"With an adjustable, driver controlled diff, meaning the power output (lock and unlock) per the diff ramps for each axle can be driver/team selected. And the spread percentage side to side is completely open."

This is not allowed under the current rules. The actions of the various deferential settings MUST emulate those of some mechanical design of deferential.

Brian

[hardingfv32]

"That's not what they confirmed though. They confirmed it was 40kw vs the 60kw used by everyone else. They have roughly 53hp vs the 80hp everyone else uses.

This will presumably reduce the cooling required and the size of the battery packs, allowing them to package it more tightly."

1) WHY... if you want to reduce your cooling requirement do you put the batteries in the hottest part of the car? If you are concern with packaging, why do you place the batteries in one of the most critical areas of your design?

Why would Newey not use the area behind the driver/fuel cell? What makes this area behind the driver off limits to Newey?

2) Is it possible that Vettel does not use his problematic KERS system as much as Weber? Less usage, less chance of failure?

Brian

[HampusA]

The KERS issues most likely come from the demanding packaging requirements Newey put on it. Not sure if it's cooling or wiring or what, but most likely the cause is the packaging.

My commentator said that RBR has chosen to split the KERS package on either side of the car and put it on the floor near the exhausts. Hence the constant overheating.

It´s to late to change i think and Newey himself said he under-estimated it so next year these problems will be gone for sure.

[hardingfv32]

"My commentator said that RBR has chosen to split the KERS package on either side of the car and put it on the floor near the exhausts."

Does it sound like Newey to make such an intelligent choice when there was another option?

Brian