Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team 2013

[turbof1]

Yay, another game of Conspiracy Rampage.

I like elaborate plots. I really do, but we are hearing this for months now. We also have heared this during the 2000's with Ferrari. There were even stories the last few years about Red Bull.

Everytime there is some controversy people just have to blow it up and imagine with dreamingly eyes what kind of plots and schemes are behind the curtain.

Ecclestone isn't favoring Mercedes, simply because he can't! In what way would he contribute to a team's succes other then the financial part? In what way is he a replacement to 500 hard working people, a tenths of millon worth wind tunnel and high powered computers doing CFD analyses?

Ecclestone doesn't have any part of this. The test which triggered all of this nonsence was outside his knowings, as well the tribunal, etc etc. Mercedes pulled themselves out of the hole that they were in the last years, and are themselves the cause of a great season.

Mercedes just drove a test for Pirelli. Was that out of self interest? Of course that was! Is the data coming in handy for next year? Yes it will. Will they try to lobby for tyres suited for them? Very probably. Is the name Ecclestone anywhere in there? Not a single mention. Mercedes is just doing what every other team is doing out there: doing what is best for their own interests.

[GitanesBlondes]

Yay, another game of Conspiracy Rampage.

I like elaborate plots. I really do, but we are hearing this for months now. We also have heared this during the 2000's with Ferrari. There were even stories the last few years about Red Bull.

Everytime there is some controversy people just have to blow it up and imagine with dreamingly eyes what kind of plots and schemes are behind the curtain.

Ecclestone isn't favoring Mercedes, simply because he can't! In what way would he contribute to a team's succes other then the financial part? In what way is he a replacement to 500 hard working people, a tenths of millon worth wind tunnel and high powered computers doing CFD analyses?

Ecclestone doesn't have any part of this. The test which triggered all of this nonsence was outside his knowings, as well the tribunal, etc etc. Mercedes pulled themselves out of the hole that they were in the last years, and are themselves the cause of a great season.

Mercedes just drove a test for Pirelli. Was that out of self interest? Of course that was! Is the data coming in handy for next year? Yes it will. Will they try to lobby for tyres suited for them? Very probably. Is the name Ecclestone anywhere in there? Not a single mention. Mercedes is just doing what every other team is doing out there: doing what is best for their own interests.

I'm curious, why does everyone accept what goes on in F1 as being on the up-and-up?

The list of Bernie's wheeling-and-dealing is quite long, and goes back quite some time. He's been the de factor power in F1 for a few decades as he is the one who controls the one thing that matters more than anything - money. Perhaps I'm a bit cynical with a lot of what goes on because after what he and Max did with the sport's commercial rights some years back, I fully believe he is willing to do whatever is necessary to generate more revenue. It makes little difference to Bernie how the money comes, just so long as it fills his pockets, and those of CVC.

As such, do people believe Bernie is going to hold a press conference to announce that he has created an inherently uneven playing field within Formula 1? Of course not. The larger the pile of money involved, the less scruples one has towards doing things that will enhance their share of money.

Bernie admitted he had asked Pirelli to create the tires they've been using the past several seasons. So if he is willing to try and create a loaded dice environment, is it all that much of a reach to see him trying to subtly influence the results of F1? It's easier to do this in the increasingly restrictive environment of F1 in 2013. More and more variables are controlled with spec-everything, so any minor advantage found no matter the legality of it, can be enough to let a team potentially walk away with the WDC and WCC. There's nothing that indicates that the FIA has the amount of power that Ecclestone has amassed. When he got control over press/media accreditations, he effectively stamped out any potential reporting from taking place. Kind of hard for the media to report anything accurately in F1 these days when everyone lives in fear of offending the hand that feeds them at FOM.

[marcush.]

Lets get this right, are some people saying Brawn has successfully created Mercedes International Assistance? Are they saying Pirelli deliberately designed the tyres for them, hence the secret test? I don't buy that.

I do agree it was a political masterstroke to have the Merc DNA in the tyre test data for the 2014 tyre.

As for the new 2013 tyre, the other teams have had more testing at the YTD so that neutralised any Merc advantage.

Probably more relevant is that the new tyre seems to run at a cooler temp which would help a team struggling with overheating tyres. Merc have been one lap wonders in 2012 and 2013 but cooler race tyres was the missing piece of the jigsaw.

I guess some of it is Merc design, some of it is circumstances falling into their lap. I'm sure Brawn was agitating to switch to Kevlar, just like other teams would have tried to block it if they believed they would disadvantaged.

So, yes I agree Merc have done some canny manoeuvring and had good fortune.

the tyre we see now is a consequence of the tyre test Mercedes did for Pirelli .Mind you Pirelli got for the first time in years
a feedback from a curent car dedicated only for their testing testing purposes .usually they test outdated hacks and when all teams test preseason it´s a development war going on ,24 moving targets and the tyre is the fixed piece in the puzzle.
This time -1 car ,2 drivers ,no car changes ,collecting data on deveopment tyres ...with a W04 ,Rosberg and Hamilton as referencee points.It´s not hard to understand what the consequence of all this is,especially when your benchmarrk is the car with huge rear tyre problems.
No doubt the result of the test for Pirelli was they needed a more durable rear tyre and that´s what they worked on.
The silverstone test was not a development test ,it was a test for the teams to get a picture of what to expect in Hungary .
In effect the teams in silverstone had to adapt to the results of the secret Mercedes Pirelli test in Barcelona during that test.

Mercedes simply had to hope Pirelli had all the development right as they were working from the data created with W04.
a genuine masterstroke ,present , or whatever it is it changed the season .And this is exactly what Hamilton and Brawn
did say-we are surprised and do not understand why it suddenly works...we have worked hard on understanding ....but that
they did all the months and years before as well.Now Pirelli has tuned the tyre to their needs .
On a sidenote:
Can anybody please explain why Dr.Marko who usually is quick to shoot from the hip is in complete silence these days?
No idea? look as far as Spielberg .

[holeindalip]

I don't understand ?? Its a 2012 kevlar belt with the 2013 rubber that's it. Obviously this has helped Mercedes, McLaren and Williams. Red bull, lotus seem to be exactly where they were before force India and Ferrari are still struggling to put heat in the tires as they were before

[Mika1]

I don't understand ?? Its a 2012 kevlar belt with the 2013 rubber that's it. Obviously this has helped Mercedes, McLaren and Williams. Red bull, lotus seem to be exactly where they were before force India and Ferrari are still struggling to put heat in the tires as they were before

A bit too early to judge, high temps in Hungary and a lot of slow corners, we will know more after Spa and Monza.

[FoxHound]

Actually ... The current tyre is a consequence of Pirelli tyres failing at silverstone and a couple other races.
That Mercedes tested it is no reason why it's currently being used, lets at least get the fact right there.

Secondly what would Marko say? Hamilton won Hungary as much as the W04 did, dispatching cars ahead of him quicker and at more critical times than his opponents.
Any criticism of the victory would came across as exactly what it is... Sour grapes.

[elf341]

Come on guys. The idea that BE is fixing the champion is completely hilarious. He already said last year that he wanted someone other than Red Bull to win, so why didn't he "arrange" for Alonso to take it? Quite frankly because he doesn't arrange anything, and a team's success is down to the team's own engineering and political manoeuvring .

Marcush/Richard's view is the closest to the ball. Mercedes embedded a massive, and very influential data set in Pirelli's research database. This almost certainly means that whatever construction is chosen for next year, the Merc will not be disastrous on those tires - it may not be merc-optimal, but there's no way from an engineering point of view that they would pursue a development direction indicated by tire (e.g.) P_DEV_17C that performed "badly" for the W04 at Barc. This means that Merc effectively neutered the left tail of the distribution.

Yes it may not be "fair", but this is F1, all teams perform political posturing for competitive advantage: most oft occurrence are teams lobbying to ban technology where they are trailing the leading edge. e.g. DDRS - which was lobbied to be banned by other teams *precisely* because they perceived a competitive disadvantage to Merc in the development race (it later turned out to be a dead end anyway, but the other teams nipped it in the bud just to be sure).
In the end, the Barc test is, and will be seen later, as a master stroke by Brawn. The kind of master stroke that wins championships.

[Mika1]

I don't understand ?? Its a 2012 kevlar belt with the 2013 rubber that's it. Obviously this has helped Mercedes, McLaren and Williams. Red bull, lotus seem to be exactly where they were before force India and Ferrari are still struggling to put heat in the tires as they were before

A bit too early to judge, high temps in Hungary and a lot of slow corners, we will know more after Spa and Monza.

Yes I agree its still early but I'm sick of hearing all these conspiracy theories

In that case, I can't agree more.

[OppositeLock]

Mercedes winning at the Hungaroring shouldn't really be a surprise since it is often called 'the other Monaco'. It's a slow, narrow and twisty circuit that is difficult to overtake on. The performance in the hot weather was the surprise for many.

I'm still not convinced that they have solved the tire issues. Mercedes continues to improve but the combination of hot weather and high speed turns is a problem that they need to solve going forward. Lotus and Red Bull seem to do well in those types of circumstances. Perhaps the use of the thermal infrared cameras are helping Mercedes find the optimal set up.

[marcush.]

Mercedes winning at the Hungaroring shouldn't really be a surprise since it is often called 'the other Monaco'. It's a slow, narrow and twisty circuit that is difficult to overtake on. The performance in the hot weather was the surprise for many.

I'm still not convinced that they have solved the tire issues. Mercedes continues to improve but the combination of hot weather and high speed turns is a problem that they need to solve going forward. Lotus and Red Bull seem to do well in those types of circumstances. Perhaps the use of the thermal infrared cameras are helping Mercedes find the optimal set up.

Monaco and Hungary are not really the same ,the track characteristic is quite different .Mind you ,last year Mercedes was
fully competitive in Monaco but nowhere near the pace in Hungary...

[muhammadtalha-13]

The Political MasterStroke that we are talking about which Brawn played, I think he did it with 2014 season in mind as Pirelli said they were testing tyres for 2014. And surly Brawn did'nt knew that tyres will fail and Silverstone and will be changed. So this time aside from that MasterStroke, they also got lucky.

[diego.liv]

What's the aim of the two mechanics at the middle of the car?
Whatever the side is, the first is adjusting the front wing, then 3 for the wheel and then the x-man 'holding up' the car; they can't be there to give an extra OK for the pit procedure (a. they have lights, b. no one at the rear doing the same)

https://www.google.it/search?q=mercedes ... B650%3B423

[astracrazy]

What's the aim of the two mechanics at the middle of the car?
Whatever the side is, the first is adjusting the front wing, then 3 for the wheel and then the x-man 'holding up' the car; they can't be there to give an extra OK for the pit procedure (a. they have lights, b. no one at the rear doing the same)

https://www.google.it/search?q=mercedes ... B650%3B423

all teams do it to hold the car steady because the car is only being lifted in the middle of the car front and back, the car will have a tendency to rock side to side (even just slightly) which would slow down pit times.

[diego.liv]

What's the aim of the two mechanics at the middle of the car?
Whatever the side is, the first is adjusting the front wing, then 3 for the wheel and then the x-man 'holding up' the car; they can't be there to give an extra OK for the pit procedure (a. they have lights, b. no one at the rear doing the same)

https://www.google.it/search?q=mercedes ... B650%3B423

to hold the car steady because the car is only being lifted in the middle of the car front and back. all teams do it. the car will have a tendency to rock side to side other wise (even just slightly) which would slow down pit times.

Thanks

[khaliweed]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/109121

Ross Brawn expecting a better 2nd half.