Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
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Abarth
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Joined: 25 Feb 2011, 19:47

Re: Honda Power Unit

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Seems a transient or part load condition.

Interestingly enough, the fuel pressure is 300 bar. I thought Honda was adopting pump/injectors with 500 bar capability (the limit of the regulations).

GoranF1
GoranF1
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Re: Honda Power Unit

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Honda MGU-K mistake.

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diffuser
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Joined: 07 Sep 2012, 13:55
Location: Montreal

Re: Honda Power Unit

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Abarth wrote:
dero wrote:frame with telemetry/graphs from the video, dont know how to get embeddable link from google drive files.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzJbWV ... sp=sharing
Very interesting, thanks.
I don't even know how to extract frames from a video, go figure....

Are there more frames of this telemetry? I remember an older video, but this seems much better readable.
That looks like spain right ?

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Abarth
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Joined: 25 Feb 2011, 19:47

Re: Honda Power Unit

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diffuser wrote:
Abarth wrote:
dero wrote:frame with telemetry/graphs from the video, dont know how to get embeddable link from google drive files.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzJbWV ... sp=sharing
Very interesting, thanks.
I don't even know how to extract frames from a video, go figure....

Are there more frames of this telemetry? I remember an older video, but this seems much better readable.
That looks like spain right ?
Yup, this is Barcelona

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PlatinumZealot
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Joined: 12 Jun 2008, 03:45

Re: Honda Power Unit

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Abarth wrote:Seems a transient or part load condition.

Interestingly enough, the fuel pressure is 300 bar. I thought Honda was adopting pump/injectors with 500 bar capability (the limit of the regulations).
Everything else we hear about 500 bar in the 2015 Mercedes has not been confirmed yet so it is a bit of a crapshoot. This could also be a very old screen too. Honda might have upgraded to 500 bar since then. Again we have not confirmation of this... so it anyone's guess.

Another interesting thing is the flow into the fuel flow meter is different from the flow through the injectors. I guess it depends on how they integrate the instantaneous values.

The fuel is hot too. 70 deg as someone else pointed out. I think this temperature rise is from pumping the fuel and heat transfer from the cylinder head?
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Andres125sx
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Joined: 13 Aug 2013, 10:15
Location: Madrid, Spain

Re: Honda Power Unit

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I wouldn´t take any conclusion from that shots. I´d bet that´s from pre-season, when they had so many problems the PU must be running on a "slower than GP2 and praying it will not explode" mode.

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FW17
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Joined: 06 Jan 2010, 10:56

Re: Honda Power Unit

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Compressor is not that far into the V

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FW17
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Joined: 06 Jan 2010, 10:56

Re: Honda Power Unit

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595 HP @ 10000 rpm Does that mean 725@12000???

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Honda Power Unit

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That is pretty good power if it is an early version!!

The Renault came out with about the same horsepower (610) at the begining of 2014 at a slightly higher rpm. So at least from that point on that version of the Honda engine was on track to better Renault.

Mercedes may be anywhere from 640 to 690 hp these days.
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Fer.Fan
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Joined: 02 Mar 2015, 21:31

Re: Mclaren MP4-30 Honda

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Good analysis of Honda PU! =D> =D> =D>

According to Somers Mclaren Honda are in deep s..t, far to behind Mercedes and Ferrari.

http://www.somersf1.co.uk/2015/09/mclar ... n-and.html

AxialTurbine
AxialTurbine
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Joined: 31 Oct 2013, 08:32

Re: Honda Power Unit

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You are right, but you are constantly talking about the size of the compressor, which is, in my opinion and I think also the one from Arterius, less important than the turbine size. The compressor should only be matched such that the desired boost pressure is delivered, which is fairly well known under the teams I assume due to the fuel flow limit, also last year. However, the turbine should be sized to extract as much energy as possible from the exhaust gases, which was underestimated for example by Ferrari last year and I think Honda this year.
If you change the size of the turbine you should also change the size of the compressor if you want to run the turbine at the maximum possible efficiency, unless of course the compressor and turbine were mismatched to start with
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langwadt
langwadt
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Joined: 25 Mar 2012, 14:54

Re: Honda Power Unit

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WilliamsF1 wrote:595 HP @ 10000 rpm Does that mean 725@12000???

http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/jj5 ... 3b3xbj.jpg
the fuel FLOW is maxed out at 10500rpm, the power would be dropping past that

ferkan
ferkan
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Joined: 06 Apr 2015, 20:50

Re: Honda Power Unit

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ajnšpric_pumpa wrote:Honda MGU-K mistake.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CO4-vO9WsAEB_2x.jpg:large
Ferrari's MGU-K placement is certainly...interesting. All other manufacturers put it below exhaust manifolds, and integrated neatly "inside" engine block. Ferrari's solution takes more space, moves MGUK to the back of the car and away from CG and gives them one more hot part where the engine cover should get tighter therefore making that much harder. Maybe thats why Italian press and Arrivabene said they will rework parts of engine (cylinder head and placement/design of MGUK) for next upgrade. Would make sense since this does not...

gruntguru
gruntguru
565
Joined: 21 Feb 2009, 07:43

Re: Honda Power Unit

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Abarth wrote:Seems a transient or part load condition.
Interestingly enough, the fuel pressure is 300 bar. I thought Honda was adopting pump/injectors with 500 bar capability (the limit of the regulations).
Everything else we hear about 500 bar in the 2015 Mercedes has not been confirmed yet so it is a bit of a crapshoot. This could also be a very old screen too. Honda might have upgraded to 500 bar since then. Again we have not confirmation of this... so it anyone's guess.

Another interesting thing is the flow into the fuel flow meter is different from the flow through the injectors. I guess it depends on how they integrate the instantaneous values.

The fuel is hot too. 70 deg as someone else pointed out. I think this temperature rise is from pumping the fuel and heat transfer from the cylinder head?
The fuel pressure is probably variable. You won't see 500 bar at part load.

Hot fuel is deliberate (as I have suspected for some time). If they are running at 70* it is because the engine is more efficient at that temperature - not because they cannot control the fuel temperature. Fuel "heaters" were dicussed in another thread (the one about FIA clamping down on secret fuel accumulation and changing system pressure).

Interesting that the power at 10,000 rpm is the same as the Honda RA168e - just coincidence?
Last edited by gruntguru on 17 Sep 2015, 04:48, edited 1 time in total.
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wuzak
wuzak
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Joined: 30 Aug 2011, 03:26

Re: Honda Power Unit

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ferkan wrote:
ajnšpric_pumpa wrote:Honda MGU-K mistake.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CO4-vO9WsAEB_2x.jpg:large
Ferrari's MGU-K placement is certainly...interesting. All other manufacturers put it below exhaust manifolds, and integrated neatly "inside" engine block. Ferrari's solution takes more space, moves MGUK to the back of the car and away from CG and gives them one more hot part where the engine cover should get tighter therefore making that much harder. Maybe thats why Italian press and Arrivabene said they will rework parts of engine (cylinder head and placement/design of MGUK) for next upgrade. Would make sense since this does not...
IIRC, Ferrari moved the MGUK this season.