Mercedes GP MGP W01

[bugref]

looking at the lap times of Redbull seems their car is so balance. I am talking about Straight line speed vs. downforce.

looking at the W01, I just want to point and hightlight the drag made by the car. Now I want to point out the Drooping nose. seems it has so much downforce that it compromises its Straight line Speed.

What if they will put the pressure of its downforce on the front wing, and lessen the downforce of its nose, In short get rid of that drooping nose. I am concern about the design because in all part of the circuit the w01 downforce are creating so much pressure on the front tire so much more on the straight line because the more you go faster the more the car pushed downward, because the drooping nose design mainly focus on getting additional downforce it creates so much drag limiting its straight line speed and at the same time it added more downforce of the car that putting pressure the Tire even more. Its just my opinion, but I have no idea really whats the penalty of that drooping nose in respect to straight line speed I am just looking at the basic concept of aerodynamics. I dunno if they can do that this season because I read that its impossible to do that this year. but I hope Brawn will also consider redesigning their nose next season.

[marcush.]

I feel quite sorry for the Brawn guys..they worked so hard to analyse their weakness ,developped new parts and made adjustments helping Michael....only to find themselves still almost a second behind RedBull.That must be really really annoying .it would annoy me.It almost looks like there was more potential for improvement in the already best package then with all other cars..surprising.My idea was do away with the root course of underperforming and you´ll be in the ballpark..but clearly
this was not enough yet.
interesting words from Mr.Brawn concluding the added degree of freedom with the Weight distribution was not helping them in Barcelona this was aimed at other tracks.
So maybe they have an idea where to benefit from weight distribution readjustment..
but he already seems to have given up any hope to close the gap towards RB in this season.

[wesley123]

if this part was such an huge problem it was already changed, afterall it is the start of the car, the nose is wrong, then the rest of the car is too.

Also because the red bull got one it doesnt mean that then everyone should get one, because they are the fastest team currently doesnt mean their whole car is the best, there are like 11000 other parts on the car, why pick the nose? You dont nkow with what idea the cars are built. Maybe the mercedes is built for an low CofG at the front, so a low nose would fit much better then.

@Marcush; it is because of for who the car is built, remember previously Rosberg was the first man, now with the upgrades schumi is the faster man, nothing has changed only the running order, i am already feeling sorry for rosberg, such an great driver.

[marcush.]

if this part was such an huge problem it was already changed, afterall it is the start of the car, the nose is wrong, then the rest of the car is too.

Also because the red bull got one it doesnt mean that then everyone should get one, because they are the fastest team currently doesnt mean their whole car is the best, there are like 11000 other parts on the car, why pick the nose? You dont nkow with what idea the cars are built. Maybe the mercedes is built for an low CofG at the front, so a low nose would fit much better then.

@Marcush; it is because of for who the car is built, remember previously Rosberg was the first man, now with the upgrades schumi is the faster man, nothing has changed only the running order, i am already feeling sorry for rosberg, such an great driver.

you say they sacrificed development for speed for adapting the car to Schumachers preferences?
to me the whole story about them having similar preferences which is what we have heard for a long time is now put ad absurdum... in fact it seems they like really something different ... as the car has not gained significantly in speed compared to the opposition ,but the pecking order has swapped around in the team internally.
So the name of the game is Schumacher was giving input that was relied on whereas Rosbergs input did not give him a quicker car now...in fact he went backwards.

[bugref]

wesley that is just my opinion, I just point one of the suspects since the front wing and the nose is the first stage of breaking up the drags if they could have develop a good design that can really breaks up the drag efficiently then they could have been fighting with the red bull now. I am talking about its straight line Speed here since they are weak in this area.

[marcush.]

wesley that is just my opinion, I just point one of the suspects since the front wing and the nose is the first stage of breaking up the drags if they could have develop a good design that can really breaks up the drag efficiently then they could have been fighting with the red bull now. I am talking about its straight line Speed here since they are weak in this area.

just look at that area in front of the rear wheels ,how clean ,low and compact the RBR6 is in this area..almost like the Leyton house CG901 ..this is in a different league compared to all other cars..
and of course their exhaust blown diffusser sides Footplates VGs... no wonder just why they are so quick in those full throttle quick corners...
f-duct is only for the straights..

[siskue2005]

if this part was such an huge problem it was already changed, afterall it is the start of the car, the nose is wrong, then the rest of the car is too.

Also because the red bull got one it doesnt mean that then everyone should get one, because they are the fastest team currently doesnt mean their whole car is the best, there are like 11000 other parts on the car, why pick the nose? You dont nkow with what idea the cars are built. Maybe the mercedes is built for an low CofG at the front, so a low nose would fit much better then.

@Marcush; it is because of for who the car is built, remember previously Rosberg was the first man, now with the upgrades schumi is the faster man, nothing has changed only the running order, i am already feeling sorry for rosberg, such an great driver.

you say they sacrificed development for speed for adapting the car to Schumachers preferences?
to me the whole story about them having similar preferences which is what we have heard for a long time is now put ad absurdum... in fact it seems they like really something different ... as the car has not gained significantly in speed compared to the opposition ,but the pecking order has swapped around in the team internally.
So the name of the game is Schumacher was giving input that was relied on whereas Rosbergs input did not give him a quicker car now...in fact he went backwards.

what are you guys talking about?

The improvements clearly worked... look at Schumy's time (only this time without any hatred) he was AS fast as the Ferraris and Mclarens... he lost to the best Mclaren by 4 tenths....and moreover he was slowed by Kubica in the first sector by 4 tenths ...just look at the live timings data you will understand
When was Britney close to Mclarens and Ferrari's times (in normal conditions )
clearly you guys are biased!

[marcush.]

maybe I do not understand ,but clearly rosberg had performance wise his worst weekend so far...in each and every session he struggled to get into the top 6 whereas in allmost every session before he was a top 6 contender?

in fact the distance to pole was:
1.1s in Manama,0.95s in Australia,1.3s in Sepang and only .36s in China for Rosberg
1.4s ,1s,2.4s and 1s for Schumacher....

and now we are at: 1,3 seconds for Schumacher and 1,4 seconds for rosberg in Barcelona...
You could hardly say they are closer than before could you? in fact Rosberg is further back than ever and even for schumi it is only his third best gap to pole.

Of course you can count up and down sector times and potential ...but you would have to make allowances for all others then as well...

do not understand me wrong ,i want them to succed ,but obviously the step in development barely kept the gap where it already was.

[ringo]

Rosberg problem is setup with his race engineer. What i can say though is that the car has improved much. Shumacher could have been faster still if his first sector was better. I really believe the car is good enough to surprise the slower drivers of the top teams like Ferrai and Mclaren now and then.
I wont celebrate Shumis win over his teammate though, i still think Rosberg is the faster driver. Can't erase all he has done in the past 4 races, and the one time Shumi out quali's him, we say say Shumi is taking it to him. Maybe next race we see what more the drivers can get out of the car setup wise.

[marcush.]

Rosberg problem is setup with his race engineer. What i can say though is that the car has improved much. Shumacher could have been faster still if his first sector was better. I really believe the car is good enough to surprise the slower drivers of the top teams like Ferrai and Mclaren now and then.
I wont celebrate Shumis win over his teammate though, i still think Rosberg is the faster driver. Can't erase all he has done in the past 4 races, and the one time Shumi out quali's him, we say say Shumi is taking it to him. Maybe next race we see what more the drivers can get out of the car setup wise.

ah come on ,now its Jock clear at fault for not being able to tailor the car to his needs after four races were he could beat MS fair and square? I don´t buy this.

[siskue2005]

maybe I do not understand ,but clearly rosberg had performance wise his worst weekend so far...in each and every session he struggled to get into the top 6 whereas in allmost every session before he was a top 6 contender?

in fact the distance to pole was:
1.1s in Manama,0.95s in Australia,1.3s in Sepang and only .36s in China for Rosberg
1.4s ,1s,2.4s and 1s for Schumacher....

So the fact that Redbull was a wooping 1 second faster than the next best car doesnot count? (unlike other GPs)

Performance is not linear my friend, going into this GP...the RBR are perfectly suited for this track....
The advantage RBR have this weekend is ridiculous
Even Alonso has given up fighting the RBRs this race
If you look at the next best car, that is Ferrari and Mclarens...they are only as fast as the Mercedes..

and now we are at: 1,3 seconds for Schumacher and 1,4 seconds for rosberg in Barcelona...
You could hardly say they are closer than before could you? in fact Rosberg is further back than ever and even for schumi it is only his third best gap to pole.

Of course you can count up and down sector times and potential ...but you would have to make allowances for all others then as well...

how far back is the second fastest car??
its 0.9 to 1 sec.
So Mercs have clearly improved and i would say caught up to Mclaren and Ferraris...infact if MS was not blocked in his S1 he would have been 3rd or 4th!

do not understand me wrong ,i want them to succed ,but obviously the step in development barely kept the gap where it already was.

Yeah so you mean others didnt improve at all?
You logic will only work if other teams stood still
If Mercs didnt develop at all, then they would not have made it to Q3

[Morteza]

According to Rosberg's quotes after qualifying, he was not satisfied his car's set-up and found the car difficult to drive.What is the problem?! I can't accept that now the car fits Schumacher better than Rosberg! They've given both drivers the same upgrades but the result are now exactly the opposite of what it had been before Barcelona! Now Michael is happy about the car but Nico is not! Michael said today that the car was better in yesterday's practices but today they've got the most out of the car! Am I missing something?! Of course the Spec-B car is doing better but why with only Michael behind the wheel? Does Nico need more time to get adapted with the car? I don't think so! Now Michael is doing pretty well without any prior testing of the car!

[marcush.]

the Barcelona track is indicative of the relative performance of the cars ,isn´t it?

who is trying to find excuses here ?
Fact is the gap towards the fastest car has not reduced ,we cannot deny this .
fact is we do not know for real if the cars have really improved from the winter testing ,as the in winter the conditions will alter right everything from track temp, ambient temp o²content in the air ,air density = downforce levels ,downforce distribution (as the air density close to the ground will be affected by track temp as well...etc etc ..so it seems outragegous for anyone not holding in hand a real printout of downforce related data to claim anything.
so back to the beginning ,all we have is the times ,and of course the sector times.
so be it and count up the best sector times if you want ,still if that botched first sector was not for MS still it was a second .We do not know if Michael had that perfect first sector would this have bean detrimental to the following sectors with too much heat in the tyres.. what we do know is that Michael is shocked about the gap they have towards Red Bull.

and honestly speaking the gap towards Mclaren and ferrari was not that big at least for rosberg .He was 5th ,6th,2nd and 4th in the qualy sessions so far .

Bahrain Gap towards RBR : 1.1second,towards Mclaren 0,toward Ferrari 1second
Australia Gap towards RBR:1second,towardsMclaren 0.5s,Ferrari 0.8seconds
Sepang Gap towards RBR 1,35s all Ferrari/Mclaren times obolete due to Qauly turmoil..
China Gap towards RBR:0,365,towards Mclaren even,towards Ferrari even
Barcelona Gap towards RBR 1.3 towards mclaren 0.4s,towards Ferrari 0.3s

So we can conclude:
1.RBR had a bad performance dip in China and is now back to normal business.
2 Mercedes had a performance high for Rosberg in China vs RBR ,Macs and Ferrari
3.Ferrari has lost out till the start of the season from being on par with RBR now
fallen back to Merc level
4 Macs has reduced the gap to RBR from 1.1 to .8 seconds since race 2.

[wesley123]

if this part was such an huge problem it was already changed, afterall it is the start of the car, the nose is wrong, then the rest of the car is too.

Also because the red bull got one it doesnt mean that then everyone should get one, because they are the fastest team currently doesnt mean their whole car is the best, there are like 11000 other parts on the car, why pick the nose? You dont nkow with what idea the cars are built. Maybe the mercedes is built for an low CofG at the front, so a low nose would fit much better then.

@Marcush; it is because of for who the car is built, remember previously Rosberg was the first man, now with the upgrades schumi is the faster man, nothing has changed only the running order, i am already feeling sorry for rosberg, such an great driver.

you say they sacrificed development for speed for adapting the car to Schumachers preferences?
to me the whole story about them having similar preferences which is what we have heard for a long time is now put ad absurdum... in fact it seems they like really something different ... as the car has not gained significantly in speed compared to the opposition ,but the pecking order has swapped around in the team internally.
So the name of the game is Schumacher was giving input that was relied on whereas Rosbergs input did not give him a quicker car now...in fact he went backwards.

actually wehat you are saying now is everything i ment, i agree with you. Although if it stays like this i just feel bad for Rosberg, as he is gonna play the second driver for schuey, it is pretty much clear that rosberg cant handle the car as good as schuey.

[marcush.]

"Yeah so you mean others didnt improve at all?
You logic will only work if other teams stood still
If Mercs didnt develop at all, then they would not have made it to Q3"

never said that ...I said they could not reduce the gap.I have no proof if the cars have improved or not.
for sure the times do not indicate more than RBR has by far the best car and Merc is still the 4th force and has not been able to reduce the gap.